🌐 Mailman 3 August 2000 - Python-list - python.org

scripting language newbie - compatibility
by Kurt Aistinger Sept. 14, 2000

Sept. 14, 2000

Hello everybody! I recently decided to learn a scripting language like perl, tcl or python and can't decide which I should choose. Someone told me that perl is source-compatible, you can take the source from unix, copy it to windows and it runs, which is reallly cool I think. Nevertheless, I think that programs in python are easier to read and to understand and that they're shorter, which makes it more sympathic to me. are python-programs source-compatible, too? regards, Harald

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UML Support for Python [was IDLE development - Call for participation]
by Martin Kew Sept. 13, 2000

Sept. 13, 2000

At 02:16 pm 16/08/00 +0000, you wrote: >Martin Kew wrote: > > > > May I suggest, in the kindest possible way. That efforts might be > > better spent in providing python support for (or a python > > implementation of) a UML round trip software engineering tool > > like ArgoUML (http://argouml.tigris.org/). What do you think ? > >Note: I have only an incomplete idea of what UML is about > and what Argo/UML tries to do. So please help me out, > if I get something wrong. > >I have had a look at Argo/UML's website. I cannot say I >really understand what it is all about, but from the look >at the UML specification I get the feeling that this is >overkill for the features we aim at with IDLE. > >The motivation for IDLE imho is that the Python distribution >contains a simple IDE for source code editing and interactive >test runs and debugging. > >Visual Python IDEs (where "Visual" is meant like in "Visual >Basic", "Visual J++" etc.) are being developed, though I see >that that is only (and maybe not even) half the way UML goes. > >I think it would be nice to have Python support for e.g. >Argo/UML, but I don't think that makes IDLE superfluous. I agree with you direction for basic functionality to support small single person tasks, but for larger projects involving a number of people, where communication and maintenance is an issue. The trend is to capture the design of the software (and it's system) visually in UML with the tool generating and maintaining the structure of the code. The prime reason I raised this issue, is that if Python does not catch this wave it might get left behind. There is an historical president for this, in the days of machine code and assembly language programming there was a perception that high level languages like Algol and Fortran where not need since higher level structures like loops and records could be adequately represented in assembly code. The trend is (UML=high level language) is used generate (Python/C++/Java=assembly language). As a side note, I think Python has significant advantages over other languages in this process, since it inherently polymorphic and has a simple clear syntax.

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Oracle and Python
by Philip Rodgers Sept. 12, 2000

Sept. 12, 2000

Does anyone have a good example of using DCOracle? I have compiled and installed and tested fine but I get oci_curs errors when I try to execute("query"); -- ********************************************************************* * Philip Rodgers SouthNet Telecomm Services, Inc * * prodgers(a)stsi.net Developer * * * * "Of course I'm not busy, I did it right the first time." * *********************************************************************

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Stackless Conspiracy Exposed was:(RE: [Python-Dev] Is Python mo ving too fast?)
by Mike Fletcher Sept. 12, 2000

Sept. 12, 2000

Let's be honest, Python isn't ready for toasters or light bulbs until Stackless is integrated. Of course, maybe Tim (who has admitted during an earlier interview to being a closet Stackless-o-phile) is just trying to push the discussion in that direction. I don't go in for that kind of subtlety, let's be clear about what's going on: Given: Tim won't be satisfied until there's a Python in every toaster. Stackless is the only Python with a dream of running in a toaster. Therefore: Tim won't be satisfied until Stackless is part of Python. Tim must be a member of the Stackless underground, dedicated to overthrowing the established order and establishing the true faith throughout all the lands of Python (save JPython). Given: Tim works deep within the multinational mega-corporation of PythonLabs (which has, through a convoluted series of privatisations and licensing discussions, replaced our quaisi-governmental system), supposedly working on the projects sponsored by the benevolent dictator. In this position, Tim has gained write access to the CVS tree! Stackless is impossible to detect by the normal user, or even the average developer. Therefore: Tim, a closet rebel, must have sneaked the Stackless code into the CVS tree undetected by the benevolent dictator. Were we able to detect it, we would find it in the beta, but Tim will remain silent for many months on its inclusion, continuing to work silently to undermine the foundations of our society, to corrupt the loyal followers of the benevolent dictator, tricking them into using this tool of the devil, weakening their resolve to follow the one true path. Can we allow this? Can we, the loyal followers of the benevolent dictator, allow his express orders to be flaunted? Of course, there is great danger, this "Tim" has gained great power within the hierarchy. Any who would speak up against him will surely find the black-suited PSU shock-troops tramping through their gardens the next day. Still, if we are to stop this heresy, we must speak out, we must reject the beautiful, elegant, powerful, wonderful, enlightening, flexible, infinitely useful, commercially critical, socially relevant, magnificent, ecstatic temptations of this Stackless "faith", and turn in this heretic who would undermine the very foundations of our society. If this means that we too must be beheaded for our faltering into one true Faith, well, so be it. It is a small price to pay to rid our leadership of this Stackless-spreading maniac! Followers of the one true Python, reject the comfort and joy of this false faith! Turn all traitors into your local block captain, hunt them down in the packages with print statements, throw out your secret caches of micro-threads, abandon your co-routines, burn the pernicious continuations you grew in a hydroponic __init__ method! The followers of Stackless cannot be allowed to roam free with access to the CVS tree! Where, oh where, are the champions of stackness in this hour of need? Arise, those who would stamp out this spreading epidemic that threatens to unleash Python on the embedded world! Mike(y) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Peters [mailto:tim_one@email.msn.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 7:14 AM > To: python-list(a)python.org; python-dev(a)python.org > Subject: RE: [Python-Dev] Is Python moving too fast? (was Re: > Is python > commercializationazing? ...) ... >language per se. I won't be happy until there's a Python in every toaster ><wink>. > >although-*perhaps*-light-bulbs-don't-really-need-it-ly y'rs - tim ...

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TKInter system requirements
by tdixon＠linux.the-dixons.net Sept. 9, 2000

Sept. 9, 2000

Is is possible to run a Python program that uses TKInter in DOS (or Win 3.1)? I have a project which would be well suited to Python and TKInter but which will (probably) have Windows 3.1 compatiblity as a requirement (not that the customer actually HAS any Windows 3.1 machines, mind you, but if they should deploy any... seriously! I'm still arguing but getting an intelligent response out of these people doesn't seem likely. I may turn the project down -- I'm still putting together the proposal) -- Tim Dixon tdixon(a)the-dixons.net http://www.the-dixons.net

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Re: fractals with Python (was: against Mathematica [sci.fractals])
by tim.lavoie＠mts.net Sept. 9, 2000

Sept. 9, 2000

In sci.fractals, Louis M. Pecora wrote: >This I will take exception to. I have been using Mathematica for >years, actually since it's first incarnation as SMP. Debuggging is not >easy in Mathematica. It's a great package, but it's very power and >generality enables you to make some horrible mistakes and it will not >catch them. You want easy debugging? Try Python. Compared to any >other language/package I've used (Basic, C, C++, Mathematica, MACSYMA, >Fortran, Applescript, Unix-shell-scripts) it's a Dream. Hi there, I've been tinkering for a little while with generating fractals in Python, so that I can tinker to my heart's content without being restricted by an application's structure or assumptions. One avenue I've been using started with Rob Hooft's ASCII Mandelbrot program, which accompanies the NumTut package (attached to the end of this message). My problem is, I'd like to use functionality which is both elegant to write and quick to execute; however, this example processes the entire array every time, including parts which have already finished. (And I'd like to preserve the z and c arrays, so I can use their contents for different drawing techniques; the method below mangles them when finished). In a sense, I guess I want to take a "deep" rather than "wide" approach, processing a pixel's worth at a time instead of the whole works. I've tried re-writing this with iterative, nested-loop code; not only is it *slower*, it strikes me as too, well, un-Pythonic. Am I on the right path here, or should I try Something Completely Different? - Tim #!/usr/bin/env python # # Mandelbrot ASCII-art using Numeric Python 1.0beta1 # # Rob Hooft, 1996. Distribute freely. from Numeric import * import profile def draw(LowX, HighX, LowY, HighY, stepx=80, stepy=50, maxiter=30): xx=arange(LowX,HighX,(HighX-LowX)/stepx) yy=arange(HighY,LowY,(LowY-HighY)/stepy)*1j c=ravel(xx+yy[:,NewAxis]) z=zeros(c.shape,Complex) output=resize(array(['_'],'c'),c.shape) for iter in range(maxiter): z=z*z+c finished=greater(abs(z),2.0) c=where(finished,0+0j,c) z=where(finished,0+0j,z) output=where(finished,chr(66+iter),output) return output.tostring() if __name__ == "__main__": print draw(-2.1, 0.7, -1.2, 1.2)

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Linbot
by Oleg Broytmann Sept. 9, 2000

Sept. 9, 2000

Hi, Marduk! Where is your http://starship.python.net/crew/marduk/linbot/ ? Did the project die? moved? Oleg. ---- Oleg Broytmann http://phd.pp.ru/ phd(a)phd.pp.ru Programmers don't die, they just GOSUB without RETURN.

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newbie: Zope
by Nick Trout Sept. 9, 2000

Sept. 9, 2000

Hi I've recently started to learn Zope. I'm having difficulty getting on the site today. I wondered if anyone wouldn't mind giving me a few pointers. I found the tutorials quite informative but then there seems be no "intermediate" level help. i.e., its straight in at the deep end! ZClasses : I assume you build up your own superclasses choosing behaviour that you would like from the base classes. I cannot find any information on what the base classes do! DTML is horrible. How does persistence work for Python objects?

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Python questions from C/Perl/Java programmer
by ye, wei Sept. 9, 2000

Sept. 9, 2000

I'm a programmer and have C/C++, Perl, Java, PHP experience, now I'm interested in Python now. I spent a day to learn the Python, it's a cool language, however I have the following questions: 1. Why not use {}?! def f: ... why not use {} like this: def f { ... } I'm almost couldn't bear with it?! {} is not difficult to be added, however it can make sure the logic is correct. It's easy and simple. SPACE and TAB mixed may cause problem in Python script, consider use 'vi', it's hard to write Python script. The other problem is if you want to added a new condition in a complex already existed condition statement, e.g. In the following example, If you want to added a new 'if' between line 1 and 2, you have to add TAB from Line 2 to 199, it's difficult to make sure you don't make mistake. (The case may be more complex as the example which I give). 1 if() : 2 if(): 3 .... .... .... 100 else: ... 200else : ... 2. Why variable doesn't have to be declared before use? Perl and PHP variables don't have to be declared before use, it's easy, however if a variable happens to be spelled wrong, it takes time to found it. In the other word - it causes to more time on testing and debug. This is why perl 'use strict' come out and obviously we benefit from it a lot. In perl, if you use 'strict' package, you need declare variable before use it, or your script couldn't run. for example: #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; my $i; $i=... I like variable need to be declared before use, alos perfer the declare with type, e.g. int i; object x; def f ( object x, int i): Is this hard to be implemented in script language? Thanks for advance! -- Sincerely, Wei Ye

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A very, very newbie question :)
by The Jazz Singer Sept. 8, 2000

Sept. 8, 2000

I've been following through on several online Python tutorials- (I've learned most of the MUD languages, HTML, DHTML, Java, JavaScript, and some C); and it's really a lot of fun! This is the first real building code that I've been doing, and it's going swimmingly. I do, however, have a question. You see, I've been putting my scripts on notepad, saving them as .py's, and opening them, whenever I want to run them as a test. Well, it works fine. But when I open it, it speeds through theprogram so fast that I don't even get a chance to see it before it closes (!) Any words of wisdom?

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