🌐 Mailman 3 December 2003 - Python-list - python.org

Website Design
by Virtualkey Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

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language learning vs. process
by Ryan Walker Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hi, I'm getting started with python and have almost zero programming experience. I'm finding that there are tons of tutorials on the internet -- such as the standard tutorial at python.org -- that tell you all about the language. That is, what are the methods, functions, modules, syntax, punctuation, etc. No problem there! Meanwhile, I'm finding that there is very little (that I can find) about how to do basic logistical things related to using python and implementing programs. For example: how to run a program. That's pretty basic, but I don't see anything in the tutorials about it. With IDLE, it's easy enough: just hit F5. But working on my server via Putty, trying to get a concrete, meaningful result, it's hit and miss. For example, I find that sometimes a program will run if I import it. I typed "import smtpmail" and it ran -- it asked me to input From, To, Subj, Message. Other times, I type in "import smtpmail" and it imports but doesn't run. My server is Unix. Typing "python smtpmail.py" doesn't do it. That seems to be what a few websites say to do to run a program. Doesn't work for me. It returns 'File "<stdin>", line 1' and a little carrot pointing up at the 'l' in smtpmail. I know it's on the path since I can import it. And the permissions are 755. Another example of a very basic problem I can't find a solution to in any tutorial: how to log in to an SMTP server (authentication). My web searches have turned up only a few snippets of listserv conversations between people who already know enough about the subject that I'm not able to divine anything from the code they pass back and forth. A search on Python.org doesn't turn up anything that would help newcomers. So basically, what I'm saying is, there is a wealth of information about how to concatenate strings and stuff like that, but I'm finding it very difficult to get started with basic processes and logistical things. For example, it took me longer than I care to admit to figure out how to append the sys.path (that's actually in the tutorial but it's somewhat inconspicuous.) My ideal beginner resource would be a complete, step-by-step explanation of how to implement a simple program -- starting with typing "python" at the command prompt and ending with some kind of concrete result. Then, with a complete understanding of the process of writing and implementing (emphasis on the latter) a program, my efforts to learn the content and syntax of the language itself will be a lot more meaningful. That is, I can learn things like what a string is and have some confidence that I'll actually be doing something (other than playing with a calculator) that can provide something of value to end users in far flung places. Might seem weird to start with learning process and implementation, since it's all dependent to a large extent on using the language properly, but I do think it's possible to learn implementation first (with a bare minimum of language learning) and then go back and learn more about the language. Just something to think about for the excellent people who teach ingrates like me how to program. If anyone has any pointers on where to get more how-to information more oriented towards process/logistics please let me know. Thanks! Ryan

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Filtering through an external process
by Paul Rubin Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Anyone know if there's code around to filter text through an external process? Sort of like the Emacs "filter-region" command. For example, say I have a program that reads input in English and outputs it in Pig Latin. I want my Python script to call the program, pipe some input into it and read the output: english = "hello world" pig_latin = ext_filter("pig_latin", english) should set pig_latin to "ellohay orldway". Note that you can't just call popen2, jam the english through it and then read the pig latin, because the subprocess can block if you give it too much input before reading the output, and in general there's no way to know how much buffering the subprocess is willing to do. So a proper solution has to use asynchronous i/o and keep polling the output side, or else separate threads for reading and writing. This is something that really belongs in the standard library. I've needed it several times and rather than going to the trouble of coding and debugging it, I've always ended up using a temp file instead, which is a kludge.

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Rekall and associated software go 100% GPL
by John Dean Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hi It gives me great pleasure to inform you that Rekall, the cross-platform alternative to MS Access, is now totally GPL. So please visit http://www.totalrekall.co.uk and download download a copy for yourself. In order for you to be able to download you must register with the Total Rekall Portal. The reason we have have made this a requirement is because we would like to be able to notify everybody when a new version becomes available. We are presently working on V2.2.0 and I am sure you would not like to miss out. You should also be aware that in order for for us to continue the future development of Rekall we will have to charge for technical support, customisation, training and consulting, therefore, now that we have gone wholly GPL, you will have to take out a technical support subscription. I will post information relating to support levels and pricing once we worked out the detail. In the meantime may I suggest that you sign up to our mailing list. Instructions can be found at the bottom of the home page. -- Best Regards John

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Looking for a Python accessible OS framework.
by Gary Herron Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hi, I'm going to be teaching an Operating Systems course in a Computer Science department of a nearby college. I'm currently searching around for interesting programming projects for the students. It is my hope (and of course the reason I'm posting to this list) that I can have the students program in Python and access some framework that allows the exploration of various OS topics. So even though this is more of an operation system question than a Python question, I though I'd start here and see if anyone knows of an OS teaching framework that could be accessed from Python. I do SWIG competently well, so I'd be able to create the interface. In my search of the web, I did find one possibility, called RCOS, at http://cq-pan.cqu.edu.au/david-jones/Projects/rcos/index.html, but it seems to have gone inactive about six years ago while converting from from C++ to Java. Thanks for any pointers, Gary Herron

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PyNum, A multidimensional array where the elements are arrays?
by jack＠thelobsterofmetal.com Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hi there I'm using Numerical Python to handle my arrays but I'm not sure how to accomplish the following. I want a NxNxNxN array where each element of the the array (A[i,j,k,l]) is itself a 3x3 array. So I can then slice my array A[:,:,i,j] into planes and start grabbing matrices from it. I need to slice it in all possible planes and I don't want to start messing around with nested lists. How would I go about doing this in python, I guess in C I would have a an NxNxNxN array full of pointers to matrix objects, but lifes to short for C. Thanks for any help you can give Jack Liddle Department Of Theoretical Physics University Of Oxford

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Re: notes on compilation Python with MinGW gcc
by bokr＠oz.net Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:33:47 +0100, "Ames Andreas (MPA/DF)" <Andreas.Ames(a)tenovis.com> wrote: >Hi Oleg, > >usenet(a)xmlhack.ru (Oleg A. Paraschenko) writes: > >> recently I compiled Python with MinGW gcc under Windows. >> If there are some interest, you can look at log of process at >>=20 >> http://uucode.com/texts/python-mingw/python-mingw.html >>=20 >> In short, about compiling with MinGW gcc: >>=20 >> * it is possible; >> * result works; >> * you must not do it unless you know for sure that you must do it; >> * you must have a good knowledge of C and of debugging; >> * in most cases all you need is to compile an extension module. > >I've recently taken a slitely different way to accomplish a native >mingw32 build. You can get a patch from > >https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=3Ddetail&aid=3D841454&group_id=3D54= >70&at >id=3D305470 All I get from the above (after s/3D//g) is "An error occured[sic] in the logger." Can you post another recipe for getting there? Regards, Bengt Richter

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How to delete this file ???
by DCK Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hello I've path to file, which look like this: \\COMPUTER\D$\C++\FILE_TO_DELETE.JPG This path was generated by os.path.walk() function. When i try to delete this file, os.remove() can't find it, os.path.fileexists() can't find it :( I can delete other files (i.e. \\COMPUTER\D$\C\FILE_TO_DELETE.JPG). I guess there's a problem with this C++ directory (++ exacly). I tried to change it to C\+\+, but this still not work. I've no idea how to delete this file. I work under WinNT 4.0 with sp6, python 2.3 with unicode support. I have adminstrator rights. Can somebody help me ? -- /===============--------- / Wygenerowal: DCK / dnia: 2003-12-01 10:49:25 /===========---------

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Re: Using and Implementing iterators with classes such as linkedlists
by Terry Reedy Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

"Adelein and Jeremy" <adeleinandjeremy(a)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:mailman.13.1070304403.16879.python-list@python.org... > First of all, I apologize for the double posting - I thought there > was some problem with the Yahoo group so I joined the main mailing > list and repeated instead of waiting as I should have. > > Thanks for the speedy and helpful responses. I now grok the downside > of using internal iterators. Now, for the external iterator, I am > thinking that I would do this: > > class LinkedList: > > ... > > def __iter__(self): > return LinkedListIterator(self.__head) > > > class LinkedListIterator: > > def __init__(self, headNode): > self.__current = headNode > > def __iter__(self): > return self > > def next(self): > if self.__current.next == None: > raise StopIteration > self.__current = self.__current.next > return self.__current.next > > Of course, this LinkedListIterator is for a LinkedList that has a > dummy header node, but the concept is the same in any case. I > understand the concept of generators, but I do not fully comprehend > all of the nuances; for that and a few other reasons, I am avoiding > their use here. My initial answer would have been the same as Duncan's -- __iter__ returning a generator-iterator. I *strongly* recommend that read more about them until you feel comfortable using one. This is one of their designed uses. Less typing and more speed than an instance of a separate iterator class. The latter is more general but the extra generality is useless here. > A few questions though: > > 1) I think it is best to pass only one node to the iterator, as > opposed to the whole list - is that "correct"? Give the iterator-maker (class or genfunc) whatever it needs to start iteration. 'Best' is what it easiest. > 2) The __iter__() method is necessary in LinkedListIterator, am I > correct? All iterators should have __iter__ returning self so user can accept either iterable, self iterating or not, or iterater and call iter(itwhatever) and get iterator without trying to test. > 3) Does this code display suitable Python idiomatic expression? Ignoring preferability of gen-it, overall, yes. >For > example, and in particular, is my use of '==' (as opposed to 'is > not') acceptable and good from this viewpoint? No. Generic comparison 'x==None' is slower than 'x is None', althought not as bad as 'x==True' instead of 'x' after 'if'. The singleton-ness of None is a feature of Python intended to be used as in latter expression. Terry J. Reedy

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Re: I just want to say that python is a COOL language
by Michel Claveau/Hamster Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Idem.

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