🌐 Mailman 3 February 2005 - Python-list - python.org

Forcing interactive interpreter without (-i)
by Miki Tebeka Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Hello All, If there a way a script can tell Python to enter interactive mode even if the -i command line switch was not given? I want py2exe to create an interactive session, without writing my own REPL. Thanks. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Miki Tebeka <miki.tebeka(a)zoran.com> http://tebeka.bizhat.com The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys

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"Mail receiver server"
by manatlan Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

In an intranet/lan, i'd like to put a "python server script" (which run forever) on a computer A... On another computer B, I'd like to send smtp-email to the computer A ... (send to "user(a)126.52.12.12", for example ...126.52.12.12 is the ip address of "B") in fact, i'd like to control "computer A" by sending smtp email from "computer B". What kind of server should i write on computer "B", a smtp server ? a pop server ? (i think i have to make a script which listen on a port, and execute some handlers ... but i don't know how to start) i know python very well, but i dont know anything about smtp/lan if you have a recipe to build this kind of server, it could be good but i'm pretty sure it can be easy to do ...

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Line graphics on Linux console
by frank＠chagford.com Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Hi all I don't think this is strictly a Python problem, but as it manifests itself in one of my Python programs, I am hoping that somebody in this group can help me. The following is a message I sent to co.os.linux.setup - "My question concerns line graphics on a text-based console. My actual problem relates to a [Python] program I have written using ncurses, but you can easily test it by running a program like minicom. If you call up the minicom menu, it should be surrounded by a nice box made up of horizontal and vertical lines, corners, etc. It used to work up until Redhat 7. Since upgrading to Redhat 9, and now Fedora, it (and my program) has stopped working." I received the following reply from Thomas Dickey - "That's because Redhat uses UTF-8 locales, and the Linux console ignores vt100 line-drawing when it is set for UTF-8. (screen also does this). ncurses checks for $TERM containing "linux" or "screen" (since there's no better clues for the breakage) when the encoding is UTF-8, and doesn't try to use those escapes (so you would get +'s and -'s). compiling/linking with libncursesw would get the lines back for a properly-written program." I don't really understand the last sentence. Does anyone know if it is possible to do this (or anything else) or am I stuck. TIA for any advice. Frank Millman

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tkinter: Can You Underline More Than 1 Char In A Menu Title
by Tim Daneliuk Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

I am currently underling the first character of a menu title (to indicate its shortcut/accelerator key) like this: self.WildBtn = Menubutton(self.mBar, text=WILDMENU, underline=0, state=DISABLED) However, I intend to actually have two separate keys invoke this menu to have it behave differently in different circumstances. Is it possible to underline more than a single character as I am doing with the 'underline=0' above. I tried 'underline=(0,2)' but that didn't work. Ideas? TIA, -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Daneliuk tundra(a)tundraware.com PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

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How can I use PyDoc to generate html file (modul in directory d)
by ajikoe＠gmail.com Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Hello How can I use PyDoc to generate html file when my file.py is in other directory. Sincerely Yours, Pujo

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Re: [ANN] Spike Asset Manager release 0.13
by mh Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Fredrik- This is a known issue. The tool currently only looks in certain locations or hints rather then spidering the whole hard drive (which could take a bit of time). If you have installed in a non-standard location (or are using a platform or version of software that hasn't been tested against) the tool won't find the component. One way around this is manually enter more "hints" but this doesn't scale. I'm open to suggestions for handling this in a better way. matt ps-I assume you are running on windows. Where is python installed on your machine?

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Re: Re: python and gpl
by Tim Churches Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote: > > Tim Churches <tchur(a)optushome.com.au> writes: > > >The question is: does shipping a backend which imports a module that > > > links with GPL code make some or all of the library GPL. > > We sought formal legal advice on this issue from a lawyer with > > expertise in open source licensing ...> > > The answer was that the GPL does not apply to combination of code at > > run-time. Specifically, Section 0., Para 1 (assuming zero-based > > paragraph numbering...) says:> > > "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not > > covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of > > running the Program is not restricted,..." > > My IANAL amateur reading is that the GPL does in fact apply, at least > in the US. Running the program is not restricted, but loading the > program from disk to memory before you can run it counts as copying > it, which invokes the license, Computer Associates v. Altai, 982 F.2d > 693. I personally believe that doctrine is insane, but that's what > software companies pushed through the courts in order to make > shrink-wrap EULA's enforceable. (Otherwise they'd only be enforceable > if you agreed to the terms before the vendor got your money). I can't comment on the situation in the US, but our advice made no reference to similar case law or interpretations under Australian law. However, even if what you say is true (that loading code from disk into memory is "copying"), it makes no difference, because the GPL copyleft licensing provisions only apply to copies which you give or make available to others. In other words, you can mix and match GPLed code and non- GPLed code, in source code form, in object code form, or by runtime linking to your heart's content, provided you do so in teh privacy of your own organisation, and you are NOT obliged to distribute all the other code you mix together to others under the GPL. However, if you do distribute to others, it must be under the GPL. Runtime linking, importing or making function calls does not involve distribution to others. The so-called "viral" properties of the GPL - that by using GPLed code somehow your entire source code base will need to be made available to the entire world under the GPL - is just FUD perpetuated by certain large software companies and their fellow travellers. Sure, if you distribute your mixed GPL-and-other code to third parties then the whole lot has to be under the GPL, but the GPL does not force you to distribute it. So even if loading code into memory is copying (in the US), it isn't distributing to others. > > Furthermore, Section 2 para 1 says: "These requirements apply to the > > modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are > > not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered > > independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and > > its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them > > as separate works. ..." > > That means you can run your separate program all by itself without > needing to load the GPL module. That test is just one interpretation of what that paragraph means. "Reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves" can also be interpreted to mean that the source code is clearly identified as belonging to a separate work, and that the there is no mixing of sorce code between the two works. However, in the case of our application, and in the case of Matplotlib, if I am not mistaken, that test is satisfied anyway. > > > and Section 2 para 3 says: > > > > "In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the > > Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a > > volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other > > work under the scope of this License." > > That means the two programs have nothing to do with each other. If the source code for work A does not contain a single line of the source code for application B, then it would seem reasonable to say that work A is not based on work B. However, work A can still call functions defined in work B at runtime, without "being based on it". > > On the basis of these clauses, the legal advice to us was that merely > > including "import rpy" and making calls to RPy-wrapped R functions > > does not invoke the provisions of the GPL because these calls only > > relate to run-time linking, which is not covered by the GPL. > > According to the FSF, it doesn't matter whether the linking is static > or dynamic; the GPL applies to both cases. That's their opinion, and they are welcome to it. However, teh GPL specifically states that "Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope." I cannot see how dynamic linking at runtime can be construed as copying, distribution or modification. Even if in the US it is considered copying, then the result is that you are then required to license your non-GPL code back to yourself under the GPL. However, you are NOT obliged to make that code available to others, if you do not wish to. In our case, and in the Matplotlib case, we ARE making that other code available to others anyway, just under a different free, open source license. > > > Note that the formal advice was specific to Australian law, > > Oh ok, that might be different from US law. Do you have EULA's there > that are considered enforceable? Yes, AFAIK, but IANAL. However, our Copyright Act says: "47B(1) The copyright in a literary work that is a computer program is not infringed by the making of a reproduction of the work if: (a) the reproduction is incidentally and automatically made as part of the technical process of running a copy of the program for the purposes for which the program was designed; ..." > > The other, informal advice, was to ignore the FAQs and other opinions > > on the FSF web site regarding intepretation of the GPL - it's only > the > > license text which counts. > > Ultimately, what really counts are court decisions. The FSF enforces > the GPL against infringers all the time, and in each case so far, the > infringer has backed down voluntarily because they didn't like their > chances in court. OK, although in the case of the GPLed code imported by our application, the FSF is not the copyright holder. We have discussed the situation with the copyright holder and they are happy to accept the interpretation of the GPL provisions given to us by an expert lawyer. Tim C

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Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 1)
by Cameron Laird Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

QOTW: "The right solution will end up being unique to Python though. It has to feel like Python." -- Guido van Rossum http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2005/01/amazon_devcon_g_4.html "Sparring with Alex Martelli is like boxing Mike Tyson, except that one experiences brain enhancement rather than brain damage :)." -- beliavsky This is your opportunity to vote on the prospective creation of de.comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=erneuter-CfV-1-Einrichtung-de.comp.lang… http://gvv.th-h.de/ eval() often inverts repr(). pickle() makes for more reliable serialization: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f… Kamilche illustrates how scripting (Web-scraping, in this case) can put eBay (Google, Amazon, ...) under *your* control: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1… Tim Churches pulls off the remarkable feat of appearing to say true, useful, and not-stultifying things on licensing: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… How declarative are metaclasses and decorators? Diez B. Roggisch has been helpful with this and similarly interesting summaries and examples: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… Art Siegel also approaches the question, in a more narrative fashion. Notice in the same thread Steve Holden's persistent advertising of PyCon 2005, emphasizing the celebrities (martellibot!, Armin "I Infer That" Rigo, ...) expected to appear, some for the first time ever in this dimension. Nick Coghlan explains the trickiness of Duncan Booth and F. PetitJean. This is a chance to practice generators, zip, map, and iter, all in about two lines: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… Do you know the standard library well enough to recognize its parametric statistics? http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1… ======================================================================== Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages: Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional center of Pythonia http://www.python.org Notice especially the master FAQ http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the marvelous daily python url http://www.pythonware.com/daily Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new) World-Wide Web articles related to Python. http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL are utterly different in their technologies and generally in their results. comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software. Be sure to scan this newsgroup weekly. http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week. http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ The Python Package Index catalogues packages. http://www.python.org/pypi/ The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references to all sorts of Python resources. http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/ Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group mailing lists http://www.python.org/sigs/ The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies that base their business on ... Python." http://www.python-in-business.org Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're subject with a vision of what the language makes practical. http://www.pythonology.com/success The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python Consortium as an independent nexus of activity. It has official responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. http://www.python.org/psf/ Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation. http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches. http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch Cetus collects Python hyperlinks. http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html Python FAQTS http://python.faqts.com/ The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and interesting recipes. http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are http://www.python.org/channews.rdf http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi http://python.de/backend.php For more, see http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a SourceForge reincarnation. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com. editor(a)pythonjournal.com and editor(a)pythonjournal.cognizor.com welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work. deli.cio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary. It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence. http://del.icio.us/tag/python *Py: the Journal of the Python Language* http://www.pyzine.com Archive probing tricks of the trade: http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100 http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.pyth… Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here: http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant) or http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lan… Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome. E-mail to <Python-URL(a)phaseit.net> should get through. To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning (approximately), ask <claird(a)phaseit.net> to subscribe. Mention "Python-URL!". -- The Python-URL! Team-- Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.

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Re: variable declaration
by aleaxit＠yahoo.com Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

Robert Brewer <fumanchu(a)amor.org> wrote: > Bah. Nothing teaches you a new language like having your job depend upon > it. People who study languages merely for "personal growth" learn 50% of > the syntax and 1% of the concepts, and then fritter that learning away > on inconsequential newsgroups the world over. I disagree. I studied Python, even though it had nothing to do with my job, just with the idea of using it on hobby projects; yet I believe I can reasonably claim to have learned more than 50% of the syntax and 1% of the concepts, even though you might claim that, whatever percentage it may be, it's "frittered away on inconsequential newsgroups". Alex

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Dr. Dobb's Python-URL! - weekly Python news and links (Feb 1)
by Cameron Laird Feb. 1, 2005

Feb. 1, 2005

QOTW: "The right solution will end up being unique to Python though. It has to feel like Python." -- Guido van Rossum http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2005/01/amazon_devcon_g_4.html "Sparring with Alex Martelli is like boxing Mike Tyson, except that one experiences brain enhancement rather than brain damage :)." -- beliavsky This is your opportunity to vote on the prospective creation of de.comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=erneuter-CfV-1-Einrichtung-de.comp.lang… http://gvv.th-h.de/ eval() often inverts repr(). pickle() makes for more reliable serialization: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/f… Kamilche illustrates how scripting (Web-scraping, in this case) can put eBay (Google, Amazon, ...) under *your* control: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1… Tim Churches pulls off the remarkable feat of appearing to say true, useful, and not-stultifying things on licensing: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… How declarative are metaclasses and decorators? Diez B. Roggisch has been helpful with this and similarly interesting summaries and examples: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… Art Siegel also approaches the question, in a more narrative fashion. Notice in the same thread Steve Holden's persistent advertising of PyCon 2005, emphasizing the celebrities (martellibot!, Armin "I Infer That" Rigo, ...) expected to appear, some for the first time ever in this dimension. Nick Coghlan explains the trickiness of Duncan Booth and F. PetitJean. This is a chance to practice generators, zip, map, and iter, all in about two lines: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/a… Do you know the standard library well enough to recognize its parametric statistics? http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/1… ======================================================================== Everything Python-related you want is probably one or two clicks away in these pages: Python.org's Python Language Website is the traditional center of Pythonia http://www.python.org Notice especially the master FAQ http://www.python.org/doc/FAQ.html PythonWare complements the digest you're reading with the marvelous daily python url http://www.pythonware.com/daily Mygale is a news-gathering webcrawler that specializes in (new) World-Wide Web articles related to Python. http://www.awaretek.com/nowak/mygale.html While cosmetically similar, Mygale and the Daily Python-URL are utterly different in their technologies and generally in their results. comp.lang.python.announce announces new Python software. Be sure to scan this newsgroup weekly. http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python.announce Brett Cannon continues the marvelous tradition established by Andrew Kuchling and Michael Hudson of intelligently summarizing action on the python-dev mailing list once every other week. http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ The Python Package Index catalogues packages. http://www.python.org/pypi/ The somewhat older Vaults of Parnassus ambitiously collects references to all sorts of Python resources. http://www.vex.net/~x/parnassus/ Much of Python's real work takes place on Special-Interest Group mailing lists http://www.python.org/sigs/ The Python Business Forum "further[s] the interests of companies that base their business on ... Python." http://www.python-in-business.org Python Success Stories--from air-traffic control to on-line match-making--can inspire you or decision-makers to whom you're subject with a vision of what the language makes practical. http://www.pythonology.com/success The Python Software Foundation (PSF) has replaced the Python Consortium as an independent nexus of activity. It has official responsibility for Python's development and maintenance. http://www.python.org/psf/ Among the ways you can support PSF is with a donation. http://www.python.org/psf/donate.html Kurt B. Kaiser publishes a weekly report on faults and patches. http://www.google.com/groups?as_usubject=weekly%20python%20patch Cetus collects Python hyperlinks. http://www.cetus-links.org/oo_python.html Python FAQTS http://python.faqts.com/ The Cookbook is a collaborative effort to capture useful and interesting recipes. http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python Among several Python-oriented RSS/RDF feeds available are http://www.python.org/channews.rdf http://bootleg-rss.g-blog.net/pythonware_com_daily.pcgi http://python.de/backend.php For more, see http://www.syndic8.com/feedlist.php?ShowMatch=python&ShowStatus=all The old Python "To-Do List" now lives principally in a SourceForge reincarnation. http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=355470&group_id=5470&func=browse http://python.sourceforge.net/peps/pep-0042.html The online Python Journal is posted at pythonjournal.cognizor.com. editor(a)pythonjournal.com and editor(a)pythonjournal.cognizor.com welcome submission of material that helps people's understanding of Python use, and offer Web presentation of your work. deli.cio.us presents an intriguing approach to reference commentary. It already aggregates quite a bit of Python intelligence. http://del.icio.us/tag/python *Py: the Journal of the Python Language* http://www.pyzine.com Archive probing tricks of the trade: http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_ugroup=comp.lang.python&num=100 http://groups.google.com/groups?meta=site%3Dgroups%26group%3Dcomp.lang.pyth… Previous - (U)se the (R)esource, (L)uke! - messages are listed here: http://www.ddj.com/topics/pythonurl/ http://purl.org/thecliff/python/url.html (dormant) or http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&as_q=+Python-URL!&as_ugroup=comp.lan… Suggestions/corrections for next week's posting are always welcome. E-mail to <Python-URL(a)phaseit.net> should get through. To receive a new issue of this posting in e-mail each Monday morning (approximately), ask <claird(a)phaseit.net> to subscribe. Mention "Python-URL!". -- The Python-URL! Team-- Dr. Dobb's Journal (http://www.ddj.com) is pleased to participate in and sponsor the "Python-URL!" project.

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