🌐 Mailman 3 August 2007 - Python-list - python.org

Re: OT: pronounciation [was: list index()]
by Paddy Sept. 4, 2007

Sept. 4, 2007

On Aug 31, 11:19 am, Tim Golden <m...(a)timgolden.me.uk> wrote: > Tim Golden wrote: > > Erik Max Francis wrote: > >> Paddy wrote: > > >>> I say the 'oll' in troll like the 'ol' in frolic, and pronounce roll > >>> and role similarly. > > >>> My accent is probably from the East Midlands of the UK, but is not > >>> pronounced. > >> _Troll_ and _frolic_ aren't pronounced with the same "o" sound in any > >> accent I've ever heard of. Which you pronounce _boat_ and _bot_ the > >> same way, too? > > > [Amusingly contemplating a trolling war about the pronunciation of "troll"] > > > Well they sound the same in my more-or-less South London accent. > > I can't write those funny phonetic symbols (and I hate to > > imagine the Unicode encoding hoops I'd have to jump through > > to make them readable anyway) but both "o"s sound short to me. > > Like "bot" rather than "boat" using your example. > > Since we're talking... I'm still a little startled when I listen > to some of the excellent webcasts that are being produced these > days (showmedo.com and friends) and hear American voices pronounce > Python... well, the way they do, with the stress and something of a > drawl on the second syllable. I'm sure it's just as amusing the other > way round: we pronounce it with the stress on the first syllable and > the characteristic short vowel sound in the second. > (Something like: Pie'thun). > > TJG The only true way of pronouncing Python (the computing language), is the way it is done at the beginning of Monty Pythons Flying Circus of course :-) Your right, the American way does make me pause. - Paddy.

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Re: status of Programming by Contract (PEP 316)?
by Russ Sept. 3, 2007

Sept. 3, 2007

Steve Holden wrote: > Frankly I am getting a little tired of they way you are unable to even > recognize that your readers may well have a sensible appreciation of the > difficulties about which you write. As has been pointed out already, > many readers here are extremely experienced programmers. > You said in an earlier post "that's not an insult", but that isn't > really up to you to decide. If it gives offense then it probably is, > whether it was intended to do so or not. You don't seem to appreciate > the insulting nature of your tone, and calling people bozos is not > likely to endear you to most c.l.py readers since it comes off as arrogant. You quoted what I wrote in reply to a personal attack against me, but you conveniently neglected to quote the original insult that I was replying to. OK, I'll concede that I shouldn't have replied to a personal insult with another insult, but why am I the only one at fault here rather than the guy who started it? Frankly, Mr. Holden, I'm getting a bit tired of the clannish behavior here, where "outsiders" like me are held to a higher standard than your "insider" friends. I don't know who you are, nor do I care what you and your little group think about me. As for DbC or what I call "self-testing code," I have come to the (tentative) realization that it is easy to implement in current Python -- without resorting to the "decorators" hack. OK, maybe this should have been obvious to me from the start, but here goes: All you really need to test the pre-conditions of a function is a call at the top of the function to another function that checks the inputs. To test the post-conditions, you just need a call at the bottom of the function, just before the return, that checks the return values. Those functions can also check the invariants. Then you define a global variable to switch all the self-test functions on or off at once. An advantage of this approach is that all the self tests can be put at the bottom of the file (or perhaps in another file) to reduce "clutter" in the primary code. I'd still prefer PEP 316, but this seems like a reasonable alternative. One suggestion I have for PEP 316 is to provide a way to place the self-test checks in a separate file to reduce clutter.

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So what exactly is a complex number?
by Lamonte Harris Sept. 3, 2007

Sept. 3, 2007

Like in math where you put letters that represent numbers for place holders to try to find the answer type complex numbers?

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How can I wait for all the threads I spawn for 5 minutes
by herman Sept. 3, 2007

Sept. 3, 2007

Hi, In my python program, I would to like to spwan 5 threads, for the them for 5 minutes maximum and the continue. Here is my script: threads = [] for j in range(5): t = MyThread() threads.append(t) for t in threads: t.join(60*5) print "thread join\n" # wait for 5 minutes for all the threads to complete , and # then continue But this code ends up waiting 5 minutes for **each** thread. that is not what I want. I just want to wait for 5 minutes for all threads. how can I do that? And after 5 minutes, i want to kill off all the threads I spawn earlier, how can I do that in python. Thank you for any help.

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Re: advice about `correct' use of decorator
by Gabriel Genellina Sept. 3, 2007

Sept. 3, 2007

On 22 ago, 10:00, "BJ�rn Lindqvist" <bjou...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 8/17/07, Gerardo Herzig <gher...(a)fmed.uba.ar> wrote: > > > BJ�rn Lindqvist wrote: > > >def is_logued_in(): > > > if not user.is_logged_in(): > > > raise NotLoggedInError > > > >It costs you one more line, but reduces complexity. And if you are > > >worried about that extra line you can put it in a function. > > > As far as i know (by the way, AFAK is the shortcut?, and BTW means `by > > the way'? ), decorators are not indispensable. I mean, all that you can > > do with python, you can doit without decorators. And from my point of > > view, this hides the complexity for the other developers of my group, > > hiding is not the same thing as reducing. By hiding the code behind a > decorator, you are increasing the complexity by adding another layer > that the programmer has to look through to see your control flow. > > > since all they have to do is add the @is_logged_in line at the top of > > the cgi script, and not to worrie about exceptions, not even how the > > decorator is implemented (i may log the error in some file). All they > > have to know is that any abnormal situation will redirect to the `login' > > screen. > > As I said, you can accomplish the exact same thing by calling a > function from within the function that requires the user to be logged > in. > > def change_pass(): > check_user_logged_in() > ... more stuff here... > > is less complex (and therefore preferable) than: > > @check_user_logged_in > def change_pass(): > ... more stuff here... > > An important principle in engineering is that you should always strive > to make your design as simple as possible. If you have two equal > designs, you should always choose the one that is simpler because > simple things are easier to understand than complex things. I don't see the complexity in this case - both are a single line of code. Any internal complexity is hidden by the language. In fact, I consider the decorated function simpler than the other: its body represents exactly what the function does, without any distracting precondition calls. The decorator has some advantages: can have syntax support on your editor, can perform some registering/logging, it's even easier to quickly check visually if it's here. -- Gabriel Genellina

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How does super() work?
by Lamonte Harris Sept. 3, 2007

Sept. 3, 2007

I've searched Google, and other search engines to try to find out how super() works. Can someone explain in short detail how super() works? I may and may not need to know this information, but it is good to know.

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Getting subprocesses to be hidden on Windows
by geoffbache Sept. 2, 2007

Sept. 2, 2007

Hi, As part of my efforts to write a test tool that copes with GUIs nicely, I'm trying to establish how I can start a GUI process on Windows that will not bring up the window. So I try to hide the window as follows: info = subprocess.STARTUPINFO() info.dwFlags |= subprocess.STARTF_USESHOWWINDOW info.wShowWindow = subprocess.SW_HIDE proc = subprocess.Popen(..., startupinfo=info) This works, in a way, but doesn't work recursively. I.e. if the started process itself starts a window, that second window will not be hidden. This even applies to dialog boxes within the application. So instead of a lot of windows popping up I now get a lot of disembodied dialogs appearing, which is a slight improvement but not much. Also, certain processes (e.g. tkdiff) seem to ignore the directive to be hidden altogether. This is dead easy on UNIX with virtual displays like Xvfb. Can someone shed any light if it's possible on Windows from python? Regards, Geoff Bache

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Looking for Delaunay triangulation module...
by Grant Edwards Sept. 2, 2007

Sept. 2, 2007

Can anybody point me to a Delaunay triangulation module (for Win32)? I'm currently using http://flub.stuffwillmade.org/delny/ under Linux, but I have been unable to find a build for Windows. I don't have the tools (or skills) to build libqhull and Pythion extensions on Win32). I've also found the delaunay module in scipy's "sandbox". I could never get that module to work under Linux, and I can't build it for Windows anyway. So for lack of a delaunay module, I'm stuck trying to port my application to Win32. I've spent some time Googling and found various references to pur Python delaunay modules that were abandoned because they were slow (though I haven't been able to find any of the actual modules). Slow is better than none. ;) -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! An air of FRENCH FRIES at permeates my nostrils!! visi.com

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Pivy problem and some other stuff
by azrael Sept. 2, 2007

Sept. 2, 2007

Hy Guys Did anyone manage to install and use Pivy. I'm trying it and cant come closer to the goal I get the message: Please set the COIN3DDIR environment variable to your Coin root directory! ** Aborting ** Familiar to anyone? And there is anoher question in my mind. Is there a way to make a list in python which contains a series of functions. I did'n try it. Something like: >>>def a(): >>> return 1 >>>def b(): >>> return 2 >>>def c(): >>> return 3 >>>def d(): >>> return 4 >>> list=[a(),b(),c(),d()] >>> list [1,2,3,4] I kow that for this kind of stuff this in not neccesarry, but for other suff it, gets interesting.

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Google spreadsheets
by Michele Simionato Sept. 2, 2007

Sept. 2, 2007

I would like to upload a tab-separated file to a Google spreadsheet from Python. Does anybody have a recipe handy? TIA, Michele Simionato

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