🌐 Mailman 3 December 2001 - Pythonmac-SIG - python.org

Newbie asks : Current state of play for Python on Mac OS X 10.1?
by Pete Moore Dec. 7, 2001

Dec. 7, 2001

Fellow lazy leveragers! I have meandered around Sourceforge, maybe all this is in there somewhere, I haven't found it yet. Can someone point me to resources or post a brief summary of for these questions:- 1. Python Cocoa integration a) is it worthwhile? b) how different is this from traditional development? c) would it be a mammoth effort? d) can interface builder be used for Python GUI app's? 2. Native TKinter a) with aqua? b) is it possible to allow full compatibility with existing apps.? 3. Building Python from source with Project Builder a) can it be done? b) should it be done? 4. Integrated development a) IDLE things to know? b) Python IDE things to know? "We were the first that ever burst into that silent sea." -Samuel Taylor Coleridge

3 2

Rated X for (spot)
by ryanwilcox＠mac.com Dec. 6, 2001

Dec. 6, 2001

I'm trying to make a set of scripts that will go back and forth between Classical Mac OS and OS X, using the Carbon Python. Now I have some questions: #1: Is there a way to tell what version of 'mac' I'm on? os.name() doesn't help much... ;) #2: Assuming I'm on X, is there a way to execute command-line programs? I found posix.execve(), but does this work on OS X?

6 7

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie asks : Current state of play for Python on Mac OS X 10.1?
by Jack Jansen Dec. 6, 2001

Dec. 6, 2001

Recently, Tony Lownds <tony(a)metanet.com> said: > That technote was really really useful!! After some > much-more-productive-than-before debugging, I have a working > Tkinter/Aqua. Well, at least the hello.py demo works. The patch and > Setup.local file are below. Tony: brilliant, brilliant! Now the question: can we still incorporate this in 2.2? And should we, i.e. would it still allow people to build with the "normal" X/Tkinter too, if they so choose? -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

2 1

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie asks : Current state of play for Python on Mac OS X 10.1?
by Jack Jansen Dec. 6, 2001

Dec. 6, 2001

Tony, after applying your diffs (manually, grmpf! I hate unified diffs, they always seem to fail for me:-( ) I can't compile Tkinter. It complains about not being able to find X11/Xlib.h, included from tk.h. And, indeed, I don't seem to have that on my system. I downloaded the snapshot binary release of Aqua-tk, should I have downloaded something else? -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

1 0

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Newbie asks : Current state of play for Python on Mac OS X 10.1?
by Jack Jansen Dec. 6, 2001

Dec. 6, 2001

> 1. Python Cocoa integration > a) is it worthwhile? > b) how different is this from traditional development? > c) would it be a mammoth effort? > d) can interface builder be used for Python GUI app's? Steve? Are you still with us? Status, please? > 2. Native TKinter > a) with aqua? > b) is it possible to allow full compatibility with existing apps.? Tony? Are you still with us? Status, please? > 3. Building Python from source with Project Builder > a) can it be done? Probably. > b) should it be done? Probably not. The Makefiles are fine, and the whole autoconfig process and such runs really well and is not easily adapted to Project Builder. What might be an option is to build Python.app (which is currently a difficult manual build in mac/OSX) with Project Builder. But again I'm not sure that there would be a lot of benefits. > 4. Integrated development > a) IDLE things to know? > b) Python IDE things to know? Just answered these already. > "We were the first that ever burst into that silent sea." > -Samuel Taylor Coleridge "O land van mest en mist, van vuile koude regen, doorsijpeld stukje grond, vol kille kou en damp" - de Genestet -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

3 5

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python twice on Apple's website
by Jack Jansen Dec. 6, 2001

Dec. 6, 2001

Recently, "Peter H. Froehlich" <pfroehli(a)ics.uci.edu> said: > Sorry, gotta put in my $0.02. The fink/debian package system is > actually pretty smart, and having this version available helps when > the rest of your developers use various Unix Pythons. I asked Tony > about this a couple of hours ago, and he mentioned that the whole > debian stuff could be very well utilized for more version control > when installing "extra Python packages" if I understood him > correctly. To sum up: Add whatever links, but please don't remove > the fink link from python.org. Ok, great! Who is this fink targeted at, mainly at Mac users transitioning, or at unix users transitioning? I had never heard of it, but I get the vague impression that that's because I'm probably the last unix user on the world who has used unix for an average of, oh, four hours per day for the last 25 years and still never had any real experience with Linux:-) -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

3 2

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python twice on Apple's website
by Jack Jansen Dec. 5, 2001

Dec. 5, 2001

Recently, Tony Lownds <tony(a)metanet.com> said: > For Mach-O Python 2.2: > > 1. Can it go on www.python.org? Yes, definitely. There's currently a link to the "fink" project, but they use a specialised Debian package to do the installs, I think. Something that is OSX-native would be preferred. > 2. Should it be built with a framework? > 3. Should it include Python.app? These go together: without 2 there's no 3, and if we do 2 we might as well include 3. But I'm unsure as to what the correct answer to this one is. I consider the framework-based installer still to be experimental, For one thing, it doesn't install a working /usr/local/bin/python. For another, it's still too easy to crash on OSX Server (by importing a Carbon module, for instance). I would suggest that there be at least a "normal" command line Python installer. Possibly there is an additional one, labelled "experimental", that is framework based. > Python.app requires toolbox glue; that has been reported to make > command-line python fail when no GUI is available. I tried this last > weekend and didn't have any problems. Yes, this should all be fixed now, except for the import problem above. If I find time to get away from mail:-) I'll try and do something about that tonight. > 4. With Dinu's package-maker script, the entire process could be scripted. > Could such a script go into Mac/OSX? This is probably something for 2.3, or at least for after the 2.2 final is done. One of the reasons is that I really want to get rid of Mac/OSX, it's mainly a stopgap until we get the whole Python.app stufff included in the normal build process. Of course there's a very good chance that the actual directory Mac/OSX remains to have a function, but I don't want to overload it just yet. Hmm, and Dinu's script itself still doesn't have a place to live yet. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

2 1

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Rez and resources on OSX (vs. bundle/package)
by Jack Jansen Dec. 5, 2001

Dec. 5, 2001

Recently, Steven Majewski <sdm7g(a)Virginia.EDU> said: > Instead of building a package, I added the resources to the executable > using command-line Rez tool. > > This allowed me to run it from the Terminal.app command line, instead > of double clicking or using "open -a some.app" , and still have it > come up a GUI app. Hmm, interesting... But this has the disadvantage that you have a dual-fork file again. I'm not sure whether the advantages outway the drawbacks, but it might be worth investigating. > BTW: What's the current status of bundling mach-o Python ? > Can EasyDialogs.test() run successfully from bundled Python.app yet ? Yes, they should, after a bit of massaging (like getting dialogs.rsrc in your resource chain). Instructions are in Mac/OSX. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

1 0

Rez and resources on OSX (vs. bundle/package)
by Steven Majewski Dec. 5, 2001

Dec. 5, 2001

I was recently trying out some sample code -- looking at how the new Carbon Event model works -- and I tried building the same code from both Project Builder and the command line tools. Instead of building a package, I added the resources to the executable using command-line Rez tool. This allowed me to run it from the Terminal.app command line, instead of double clicking or using "open -a some.app" , and still have it come up a GUI app. I wonder if this might work with mach-o (mac) Python ? BTW: What's the current status of bundling mach-o Python ? Can EasyDialogs.test() run successfully from bundled Python.app yet ? ( As I noted in an earlier message: I've been without a functional development machine for a while, which is why I'm asking instead of just trying it out myself! ) -- Steve

1 0

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python twice on Apple's website
by Jack Jansen Dec. 5, 2001

Dec. 5, 2001

> Ok, so maybe we could feed them at least with little notes > whenever the final next release is out, like 2.2, 2.3 etc. > and have the binaries somewhere? I think many people are > watching these pages on a regular basis. Yes, that's what I plan to do. But: I don't know where they got the information. I do enter MacPython into the guide.apple.com database, but I think that this listing comes from elsewhere. For one thing they refer to the active installer, whereas I always refer to the full installer (except on the MacPython webpage). I've asked them how I should update the listing. -- Jack Jansen | ++++ stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ++++ Jack.Jansen(a)oratrix.com | ++++ if you agree copy these lines to your sig ++++ www.cwi.nl/~jack | see http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm

4 4