🌐 Mailman 3 November 2003 - Pythonmac-SIG - python.org

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for OSX programming beginner?
by Russell E Owen March 20, 2005

March 20, 2005

>Been lurking here for a while and quietly observing. > >I am looking for a programming language and preferably and IDE for a >young nephew wanting to dip his toes in the programming pool... >Is Python worth further investigating and how good are the IDEs? >Is there something along the lines of REALbasic VisualBasic >integrated interface/code style IDE available? >What are the specialities limits of the language? >Why learn Python rather than battle on and master C or more >particularly Objective C ? >Rather difficult to answer, but how different is the learning curve? > >Many thanks for any help. Hmmm...I suggest the following: Smalltalk: Squeak and VisualWorks NC are both free (the latter only for noncommercial use). Smalltalk is a lovely, simple really powerful language that includes: - powerful IDE and class browser with integrated debugger; smalltalk has the best development environment I've ever seen for a language because it includes live debugging, live changing of classes (want to fix a method? go ahead; the change propagates; fix it and continue on the fly) - really simple yet powerful language; one of the most elegant languges I've seen, though the syntax is a bit different than C and Python programmers are used to - very rich class library, including one of the nicest collection classes (lists, sets, etc.) available Between these two, squeak is smaller and more fun and includes a nifty GUI called Morphic; however it all runs in one big window (very non-Mac like). VisualWorks is more Mac-like (at least on a Mac) and more mature, but is much larger. Both are fully cross-platform (write once, run everywhere). One limitation to smalltalk is that it's not much good for simple scripting, hence simple text processing scripts and such. Python really shines there, so... Python. This is a really nice language and he'll be able to go far with it. However, based on what you said above, some of its limitations make me nervous: - there is no really well integrated GUI, unlike the suggestions above. You can do GUI programming, but you have to choose a 3rd party package and they are fully powerful, but the two main ones (Tkinter and wxPython) are somewhat clumsy and poorly documented. - hence there is no really first rate IDE (not to put down the IDEs that are there, but in comparison to smalltalk or RealBasic...) Note: python is built into MacOS X 10.2, but it's an outdated version missing some of the things that make the language sane (such as readlines support and a GUI package). Install the missing items or a better package (if you've been reading you've seen various options for that including at least one recent binary installer). I suggest learning those two (since their few weaknesses are complimentary), but you could also consider: Buy RealBasic. The knowledge is well worth the money! It's not a wonderful language, but not so bad either and if he already knows it, well...that's a huge leg up. Java. Not sure what the IDE situation is for MacOS X, but the language is reasonable (much saner than C++). The problem is that the need to declare the type of all objects makes it a clumsy and messy language compared to Python and Smalltalk. I suggest NOT using C++. The language is too arcane and messy. The object model is insanely complicated and the pitfalls fill volumes. Learn to program first, then learn C++ later if you really have to. -- Russell

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WebKit, SVG
by Dinu Gherman Oct. 4, 2004

Oct. 4, 2004

Hi, recently I played a bit with Konfabulator, some kind of a "widget framework" for OS X, which looks very nice at the beginning. But after a while it seemed to me that despite the very good idea, its implementation is kind of using the wrong technology. They try to make it very simple to define widgets by specifying them in XML and adding behaviour in Javascript code. This is done in some very strange way, though, like putting the Javascript code insinde XML comments, which is the recommended way of doing it! Well, I think SVG and Python would be the better combination, so I wonder if Apple's WebKit is any good in making use of Adobe's SVG renderer plug-in, somehow? Of course, then we'd still need some bridge to Python, but you need to start somewhere... Dinu PS: www.konfabulator.com -- Dinu C. Gherman ...................................................................... "The thing that impresses me the most about America is the way parents obey their children." (King Edward VIII)

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ANN: Preview of SystemConfiguration wrapper
by Bob Ippolito April 2, 2004

April 2, 2004

http://undefined.org/python/SystemConfiguration-0.1.tar.gz This is a source distribution, it requires PyObjC and Developer Tools. The wrapper itself is (entirely) an ObjC framework, but it includes everything necessary for Python wrapping. I haven't done any documentation, real tests, especially testing of the runloop integration.. but here it is if someone wants to play with it. The ObjC is a little sloppy (three classes in one file), and the setup.py is a lot sloppy (thanks to distutils being not easily extensible), but it works.. or at least it should. I'll be adding stuff from MoreSCF, probably tomorrow, and writing more tests/examples and possibly some documentation over the next couple days. -bob

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Quicktime, Carbon and MacPython
by Mark Kim Dec. 3, 2003

Dec. 3, 2003

Hello all, I'm a developer with Transana (www.transana.org) working on integrating Quicktime into our new Python version of Transana. I'm currently using MacPython 2.2.2 (or 3) on a G4 1.0Ghz with 1GB of RAM running 10.2.6. I'm having a problem with the MovieController. Currently I have disabled it in the MovieTask loop because I have created a second thread to play the loop and the combination causes the interpreter to crash. A rough outline of the code looks like (this is not syntactically correct): Qt.EnterMovies() self.theWindow = Win.CreateNewWindow(6,31,bounds) Qd.SetPort(...) self.theMovie ... = Qt.NewMovieFromFile(....) ... self.MoviePlayer = MoviePlayer(self.theMovie, self.theController) self.MoviePlayer.start() #new thread Within the class MoviePlayer(threading.Thread) while not done and not stop: gotone, evt = Evt.WaitNextEvent(0xffff, 0) etc...etc... looks almost identical to example given in MacPython I'm assuming because I've spawned a second thread and there's a Carbon event, this is causing the crash. Is my assumption correct? Is there a way to spawn a thread and have the MovieController at the same time? Or maybe I'm looking at this completely wrong? Thanks in advance, sorry if this is long, Mark Kim

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aeve app.make help
by Winston Wolff Dec. 3, 2003

Dec. 3, 2003

Would somebody be able to help me with aeve? I'm trying to automate OmniGraffle along the lines of this example: http://www.designweenie.com/content.php/mappingWithGraffle01.php Eventually I want to generate various UML diagrams in OmniGraffle. But first I'm having trouble just getting the hang of AppleScript via Python. I've never used AppleScript, but I've gone through the AppleScript Language Guide. So far I've successfully installed aeve (0.0.4), the iCal example works, and now I want to do the equivalent of this in Python: tell front document of application "OmniGraffle" set shp to make new shape at end of graphics with properties ¬ {origin:{100, 100}, size:{20, 20}, draws shadow:false, name:"Circle"} end tell And this is what I've got so far: import aeve app = aeve.talkto('/Applications/OmniGraffle.app') from aeve.Applications import OmniGraffle as og origin = og.???._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("origin", aekind="property", deep=True).next() size = og. .???.._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("size", aekind="property", deep=True).next() name = og. .???.._aereg_.iterObjectsForName("name", aekind="property", deep=True).next() shape = app.make(new=og.shape, with_properties={ origin:(100,100), size:(20,20), name:"Circle" } ) The problem seems to be this iterObjectsForName() call. I don't know what object to send this call to. Can anybody help? Thanks, Winston

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problems with MacPython-Panther-2.3-2
by David Goodwin Dec. 2, 2003

Dec. 2, 2003

I have installed the second build of MacPython-Panther-2.3, but am having problems. The PythonIDE works, but both IDLE and the PackageManager fail. If I run the script in the IDLE package from the command line, the error message is Fatal Python error: Interpreter not initialized (version mismatch?) Could someone please tell me where the problem is? I'm using Python that comes with Panther - should I download and build Python 2.3 from the source? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks very much. Dave Goodwin

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Where is wx-config?
by Christopher Fonnesbeck Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

I'm trying to compile a GIS program called Thuban that requires wxPython (among other things), but am running into a strange problem -- I seem to have lost wx-config. I get the following error when building: python setup.py build sh: line 1: wx-config: command not found "wx-config --cflags " failed /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/ distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license' warnings.warn(msg) running build running build_py running build_ext building 'Lib.wxproj' extension gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -Wno-long-double -no-cpp-precomp -mno-fused-madd -fno-common -dynamic -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -faltivec -lcc_dynamic -Ilibraries/shapelib -I/usr/local/include -Ilibraries/pyshapelib/ -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/ python2.3 -c libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp -o build/temp.darwin-7.0.0-Power_Macintosh-2.3/libraries/thuban/wxproj.o libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:31:19: wx/wx.h: No such file or directory libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:178: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_vertices' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:185: error: `num_parts' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:186: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: `num_vertices' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: parse error before `;' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:193: error: syntax error before `++' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `x' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `y' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `forward' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:197: error: `inverse' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scalex' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `scaley' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offx' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:198: error: `offy' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `xs' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `ys' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: ISO C++ forbids declaration of ` project_point' with no type libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: error: `int project_point' redeclared as different kind of symbol libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:135: error: previous declaration of `void project_point(double*, double*, PJ*, PJ*, double, double, double, double, double, double)' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:199: warning: initializer list being treated as compound expression libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:200: error: syntax error before `.' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: `i' was not declared in this scope libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:201: error: syntax error before `.' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `>' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:211: error: syntax error before `--' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:232: error: syntax error before `*' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* draw_polygon_init(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: `wxDC' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once for each function it appears in.) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:282: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:283: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* draw_polygon_shape(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `wxPoint' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:323: error: `points' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `wxPen' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:324: error: `pen' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `wxBrush' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:325: error: `brush' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:327: error: `dc' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:344: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:359: error: parse error before `)' token libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:379: error: `project_points' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:380: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:385: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_BRUSH' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:387: error: `wxTRANSPARENT_PEN' undeclared (first use this function) libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:395: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:396: error: 'struct s_draw_info' has no member named 'dc' libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp: In function `PyObject* shape_centroid(PyObject*, PyObject*)': libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:635: error: `project_point' cannot be used as a function libraries/thuban/wxproj.cpp:641: error: `project_point' cannot be used as a function error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 I have wxPython installed alongside MacPython, so where should wx-config end up? Thanks, -- Christopher J. Fonnesbeck ( c h r i s @ f o n n e s b e c k . o r g ) Georgia Cooperative Fish & Wildlife Research Unit, University of Georgia

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compiling gdal against macpython
by Byron Amerson Dec. 1, 2003

Dec. 1, 2003

Hi there. I have compiled gdal(geospatial data abstraction lib) on my imac running 10.3.1 - without python. The default build is with python, which would be cool to have. evidently(I think) make is dissatisfied and can not see any dynamic libs. here is a sample of the output: ...stuff above /bin/sh ../libtool --mode=link g++ gdal_wrap.lo numpydataset.lo gdalnumeric.lo ../libgdal.la -lm -ldl -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib -lpq -L../.libs -o _gdalmodule.la \ -rpath /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/site- packages \ -no-undefined \ -avoid-version \ -module g++ -Wl,-bind_at_load -o .libs/_gdalmodule.so -bundle .libs/gdal_wrap.o .libs/numpydataset.o .libs/gdalnumeric.o -L/usr/local/pgsql/lib ../.libs/libgdal.dylib -lm -ldl -lpq -L/usr/local/src/gdal/gdal-cvs-031104/.libs ld: Undefined symbols: _PyArg_Parse _PyArg_ParseTuple _PyDict_New _PyDict_Next continued... Frank Warmerdam, gdal's maintainer suggests that I monkey with the GDALmake.opt to get things to work. yikes! None the less in exploring GDALmake.opt, I see the following(in part): PYTHON_INCLUDES = -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/pyth on2.3 -I/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/include/python2.3 PYTHON_LIBS = PYTHON_CFLAGS = $(OPT) -DHAVE_NUMPY PYTHON = python so It looks like configure and make see the includes but not the libs(dynlibs??). should I just write the path(which is what?) in the space provided and then make install?? any feedback would be very much appreciated. Cheers! Byron Amerson MS student University of Washington Department of Earth and Space Sciences

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Re: [Spambayes] Autostart on Mac OS X
by Skip Montanaro Nov. 30, 2003

Nov. 30, 2003

Takeyasu> I am using Mac OS X 10.3. How is what is necessary just to Takeyasu> carry out spambayes for making it start automatically? I use the sb_filter.py app on Mac OS X, however it's run from procmail, so I never investigated how to autostart something like sb_server.py. I sort of suspect this is a fairly generic MacPython question, so I've cc'd my reply there. Skip

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Can we solve the "two Pythons on 10.3" problem?
by Jack Jansen Nov. 28, 2003

Nov. 28, 2003

Folks, with Python 2.3.3 drawing near I wonder whether we can solve the problem that having two MacPythons on 10.3 (Apple-installed 2.3 in /System and user-installed 2.3.3 in /Library) causes all sorts of problems with extension modules being used with the wrong Python. I'd like to take inventory of the problems, and the possible solutions. Please fire away, both with problems I've missed and with solutions. Here are some of the problems I'm aware of: Problem 1. PackMan uses the same database for both Pythons. Solution 1a. Use a different database URL template for 2.3.3. Solution 1b. Make a unified database. This has the disadvantage that with the current pimp the database will become ugly (two versions of every package will be listed) but this is solvable with a new pimp version that conditionally hides packages. Still, much more work than 1a. Problem 2. Users copy extension modules from one Python to the other. Solution 2. Document clearly, and in many places, that you should not do this. Problem 3. ~/Library/Python/2.3/site-packages is shared between the Pythons. This is the one I don't really have a solution for that I like, so fire away. Solution 3a. For 2.3.3 we use a different path. Don't like this because it'll also reflect on Jaguar users upgrading (who suddenly lose their personally installed packages). Solution 3b. We recognize that this is really a general problem, and warn in Package Manager when you're installing extension modules into the per-user directory. Problem 4? I haven't tested yet what happens when 2.3.3 installs a different Apple Help Book from the standard one. I hope the new one overrides the old one, but I'm not sure. If in stead the old one overrides the new one we have no way of using the Help Book to give information on the issues above. -- Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen(a)cwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman

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