🌐 Mailman 3 February 2006 - Pythonmac-SIG - python.org

final? try at new MacPython download page
by Bill Janssen Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

I've updated my strawman page at http://bill.janssen.org/mac/new-macpython-page.html. This is intended to replace the page currently at http://www.python.org/download/download_mac.html. I think this is about as good as we're going to get, for the moment. It points out to experienced Mac developers that you can call the various Cocoa libraries, manipulate Apple Events, and package up Mac apps with Python. It explains what installers to install, and in which order (we'll have to change it when the universal build comes out -- I'll volunteer to do that). For the merely curious, it shows how to start a Terminal window and run a python interpreter. It points out IDLE and the IDLE.app application. I don't feel the need to do too much for the Python newbie on this page. They are, after all, on the python.org site, and there are plenty of links for Python newbies on that site. I don't think the Mac brings anything particularly special to that. If no one objects too much, I'll figure out how to get it uploaded to the python.org site. Bill

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Output window
by ghislain delaunois Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

Dear all, I'm new in MacPython. I installed MacPython 2.4.1 for Mac OS X 10.3. and started working with PythonIDE, with a new file and a short script, but when I launch "Run all", the window "Output" does not display. I'm sure it works because when I quit PythonIDE, I see very briefly the Output window with the result of the run. Is there anybody who could help me? I would like to get both Edit and Output windows displayed together. Many thanks in advance. Ghislain

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Build script for Universal Python
by Kent Quirk Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

My complaint about that one is that it's far too big for an icon, and shrunk to icon size it will be illegible. Here's a Monty Pythonic idea for an icon worked up by our artist: There are several variations possible of this idea, including incorporating an apple sticking out of the head as well. We also were toying with using the well-known Monty Python "foot" and tattooing it with the word Python, or spelling out Python in the "Life Of Brian" 'brick' typeface. Anyone think any of these ideas is worth pursuing? Kent ________________________________ From: pythonmac-sig-bounces(a)python.org [mailto:pythonmac-sig-bounces@python.org] On Behalf Of Charles Hartman Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 4:14 PM To: Bob Ippolito Cc: PythonMac Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Build script for Universal Python On Feb 13, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote: Please, everyone, do not continue this conversation until you have a serious candidate icon for replacing the 12 ton weight. We don't need ideas or opinions, we need pixels. I just sent this to Ron O. off-list, but since the conversation's ongoing, here's my candidate (as a .jpg, obviously, not yet an icon). I know some people are *afraid* of apples. But then they should be using Windows. Charles

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode as IDE?
by Hubert Holin Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

Paris (U.E.), le 14/02/2006 Bonjour On 12 févr. 2006, at 05:48, pythonmac-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > From: Bob Ippolito <bob(a)redivi.com> > Date: 12 février 2006 05:06:33 HNEC > To: I.Vinogradov <vinogri(a)mcmaster.ca> > Cc: pythonmac-sig(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] xcode as IDE? > > > > On Feb 11, 2006, at 7:39 PM, I. Vinogradov wrote: > >> while on the topic of IDEs, would it be possible to somehow adapt >> Xcode >> to the task? It has Python keyword highlight, and PyObjC is one of >> the >> possible types of documents. >> >> I have some vague notion that perhaps a pure python file template can >> be made, that uses framework installation and all. Is something like >> that even possible? > > Xcode isn't a very good IDE for anything but the languages it > supports natively. It does not have public APIs to change that, > either. If you use Xcode as an IDE, it won't be much more than a > glorified text editor with syntax highlighting. I wish it was a > good idea to use Xcode, but they haven't built it in such a way > that allows third parties to add value. > > It makes a little sense with PyObjC because we've put together some > py2app integration with Xcode, but it's a really ugly hack and > doesn't work all that reliably because the custom build+run target > is for some crazy reason stored as a user setting rather than a > project setting. It's also prone to break at any Xcode update > because it needs to read the undocumented Xcode project file format > in order to get the information it needs. > > If you're considering Xcode, you'd be better off with Eclipse for > Python development. Eclipse is bigger, slower, and uglier -- but > at least it can provide more functionality than a text editor. > > -bob Well, I for one would welcome better XCode integration. I actually requested a new feature (4268839, "Integrated Python debugging.", 22-Sep-2005) and two enhancements (4268844, "Round- tripping for PyObjC/IB.", 22-Sep-2005 and 4268827, "ER: External targets should support build configurations", 22-Sep-2005) thru Apple's Bug Reporter. The other way around (just to be sure we can build them for non- Apple Python distributions), it would be nice to have an XCode project type "Python C++ extension". The main reason (good or not, this is another question), is that I want to use Apple's dev tools (including XCode) to develop in-house MAC software, using C++ (and Python, of course ;-) ) as much as possible, and not touching ObjC even with a 10-foot pole. I usually do several iterations, each useful in its own right: full command-line C++ (to build the foundation and for other team members), Python with C++ extensions (so that said team members stay reasonably sane just a bit longer...), PyObjC+Python+C++ 'cause I personally want to use a Mac app with native GUI. Note: theory done with paper and pencil (and Maple in times of yore... before they switched to the unethical activation scheme), and prototyping done (usually) with MATLAB (we do need more and more easily accessible Python packages...). As far as XCode being essentially a glorified text editor, w.r.t. Python, in my case it isn't even that, as I use TextWrangler as an "external editor" :-) . Merci Hubert Holin

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never mind
by Charles Hartman Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

Never mind. The previous message was supposed to get canceled. Charles

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Free Download
by Harry Stratton Feb. 14, 2006

Feb. 14, 2006

Hi, This may seem stupid, but I can't find any version of python that is not a document when downloaded. Please send me a link. John Mandrake. ____________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Movies: Check out the Latest Trailers, Premiere Photos and full Actor Database. http://au.movies.yahoo.com

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Pythonmac-SIG Digest, Vol 34, Issue 69
by Daniel Lord Feb. 13, 2006

Feb. 13, 2006

On Feb 13, 2006, at 3:03 PM, pythonmac-sig-request(a)python.org wrote: > 1. Monty Python related (to avoid the annoying offensive imagery > arguments) Monty Python is copyrighted work. I would advise keeping a careful distance from anything commercially recognizable unless you put aside a significant settlement fund and lawyers fees for the settlement negotiation. But then you could gamble that Michael Palin et al are fans of open source software, want to contribute to the cause, and will let you use it gratis. Frankly, the language is named after a snake, a pretty noble beast actually, and I am not sure how Nature offends in this case. I think FORTRAN, PERL, C, Java, and C# are banal and unimaginitive in fact. Not that i think animals are good language names, but then what is? But the essence of naming is representation and memorability. I think Python is better than many in those respects. I suggest the collective community has 'bigger fish to fry' but since your are volunteers that is a suggestion.

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython Icon
by Kent Quirk Feb. 13, 2006

Feb. 13, 2006

I've just been talking with our group's artist about it. He's very talented. We've got a few good ideas -- he's going to noodle around tonight and I'll probably be able to post a couple of images tomorrow. Kent -----Original Message----- From: pythonmac-sig-bounces(a)python.org [mailto:pythonmac-sig-bounces@python.org] On Behalf Of Bob Ippolito Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 5:37 PM To: Trent Mick Cc: PythonMac Subject: [Pythonmac-SIG] MacPython Icon On Feb 13, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Trent Mick wrote: >> On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:11 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: >> >>> I just remembered something else that needs to be done some time: >>> create better icons, it's time to leave the 10 ton weight behind >>> (or at the very least the current rendition of it). I won't do this >>> though, given my skills in that deparment the icons would get worse >>> instead of better. > > Someone might want to politely approach Jasper Hauser: > > http://www.jasperhauser.nl/icon/ > ... > Under certain circumstances I'm willing to work (partially) for > free > on products if they are and stay freeware or opensource > software. I > have done so for both Camino and Adium, please email or message me > and perhaps we will talk it over. > ... > > He is even Dutch (or at least lives in the Netherlands)! :) If someone does approach him or another person to do some design work, we should probably specify that we want something: 1. Monty Python related (to avoid the annoying offensive imagery arguments) 2. Doesn't even come close to infringing any trademarks (no apple, etc.) The problem with these constraints is that it's REALLY hard to come up with something that's recognizable. At least with the ugly 16 ton weight icon suite we have something people are probably used to :) -bob _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] My stab at a new page
by Christopher Barker Feb. 13, 2006

Feb. 13, 2006

Bill Janssen wrote: > You missed the first part of my message, I think. The system version > would be installed under /usr/libexec/, or some such place, not under > /usr/bin/. That is a good idea, but how do we get Apple to do it? > That would leave /usr/bin free for the MacPython gang to > install its version, or at least a symlink to /usr/local/bin/pythonw. Except that, ideally, third parties should NEVER put ANYTHING in /usr/bin. However, if we put out stuff in /usr/local/bin (or /opt/whatever), and there was no "python" on the standard path, we'd have less confusion. Way back when Redhat used python1.5 with a bunch of added extensions for its admen tools. All their tools had "usr/local/bin/env python" in the #! line. This was a pain in the *&$^&%* when you wanted to upgrade your standard python, just like it's a pin now with Apple. However, all they needed to do was put a darn version on the #! line: /usr/bin/env python1.5 Apple could do the same thing, then all their admin tools would be insulated from adding additional, newer pythons anywhere on the PATH. I can't do anything about what Apple does, but I always put a version number in all my #! lines. This makes sure it uses the python version I want it used with, regardless of environment It also makes it clear to me, and anyone else that may read that script, what version is was developed against. Yes, when I get rid of that version of python, I need to go change a bunch of #! lines, but I like that too, because it assures that I am aware of what I've changed, and I can test against the new version of python when I do it. I like to see this as a universal practice in the Python world -Chris NOTE: Even better would be a way to specify multiple versions in order of preference, and a python launcher that would sort that out for you. This would be particularly nice on Windows, where you can only associate *.py with one thing. Maybe some day I'll want that enough to write it! -Chris -- Christopher Barker, Ph.D. Oceanographer NOAA/OR&R/HAZMAT (206) 526-6959 voice 7600 Sand Point Way NE (206) 526-6329 fax Seattle, WA 98115 (206) 526-6317 main reception Chris.Barker(a)noaa.gov

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Debugger
by Ken Brooks Feb. 13, 2006

Feb. 13, 2006

Same issue, different topic: Google "macpython debugger" reveals many commentators who revel in the fact that it has one, and no info on how to invoke it. MacPython help has no such topic, either. Where is it documented? Ken Brooks Sparkling Light Software

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