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Simple question surprised not asked yet, but why is tractate Nedarim in order Nashim? I am not presuming it has anywhere better to be, but I don't see how it directly connects with Nashim more than other orders.

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  • Bc a husband can cancel his wife's neder? Commented 20 hours ago

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The Gemara in Sota 2A mentions this question and gives an answer that it continues from the seventh perek in Kesubos that discusses Nedarim:

וְלִיתְנֵי סוֹטָה, וַהֲדַר לִיתְנֵי נָזִיר! אַיְּידֵי דִּתְנָא כְּתוּבּוֹת וּתְנָא ״הַמַּדִּיר״, תְּנָא נְדָרִים. וְאַיְּידֵי דִּתְנָא נְדָרִים — תְּנָא נָזִיר, דְּדָמֵי לִנְדָרִים. וְקָתָנֵי סוֹטָה, כִּדְרַבִּי.

The Gemara asks: But if so, let him teach tractate Sota first and then let him teach tractate Nazir, which is the way these topics are ordered in the Torah, and also accords better with the statement of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi. The Gemara answers: Since the tanna taught tractate Ketubot, and in that tractate he taught a chapter that begins: One who vows, in which there are several mishnayot concerning vows between husbands and wives, he then taught tractate Nedarim, whose subject is the halakhot of vows. And since he taught tractate Nedarim, he then taught tractate Nazir, which is similar to tractate Nedarim in that one becomes a nazirite by taking a vow. And he then teaches tractate Sota, in accordance with the statement of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi

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As I discuss in this article, Nashim is perhaps not the most accurate title for the Seder. Yes, it captures an aspect of many of the masechtot therein. Yet if that were the sole grouping principle, I would have expected e.g. Niddah in that grouping.

If I had to give the Seder a name / grouping principle, I would have labeled it Kinyanim and Kabbalot, Acquisitions and Acceptances. Kiddushin is not actually about betrothal but, as the perakim continue, about all sorts of kinyanim.

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  • Thanks but this answer would probably go better on a question "why is the seder called Nashim"? In theory, it does answer my question in passing, by saying Nashim is a bad name, and if we had the right name, we'd see how it fits so +1 Commented 9 hours ago
  • Indeed, a good percentage of my answers on this site are of this form -- to address the premise of the question, in a way that the question then disappears. Commented 8 hours ago
  • When josh waxman's answers are waxing, Mi Yodeya's questions waning (sorry) Commented 8 hours ago
  • Kinyanim is bava batra, only part of one chapter of kiddushin has that as a tangent. I think the underlying principle is man-made non-temple/priest hekdesh Commented 8 hours ago
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Nedarim appears in the Torah primarily with regard to women.

The sole pasuk (3) dealing with men's utterances functions more as an introduction to those of women (4-17)

When the parsha wraps up it doesn't even mention those of a man (17)

וַיְדַבֵּ֤ר מֹשֶׁה֙ אֶל־רָאשֵׁ֣י הַמַּטּ֔וֹת לִבְנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל לֵאמֹ֑ר זֶ֣ה הַדָּבָ֔ר אֲשֶׁ֖ר צִוָּ֥ה יְ־הֹוָֽה׃ (ג) אִישׁ֩ כִּֽי־יִדֹּ֨ר נֶ֜דֶר לַֽי־הֹוָ֗ה אֽוֹ־הִשָּׁ֤בַע שְׁבֻעָה֙ לֶאְסֹ֤ר אִסָּר֙ עַל־נַפְשׁ֔וֹ לֹ֥א יַחֵ֖ל דְּבָר֑וֹ כְּכׇל־הַיֹּצֵ֥א מִפִּ֖יו יַעֲשֶֽׂה׃ (ד) וְאִשָּׁ֕ה כִּֽי־תִדֹּ֥ר נֶ֖דֶר לַי־הֹוָ֑ה וְאָסְרָ֥ה אִסָּ֛ר בְּבֵ֥ית אָבִ֖יהָ בִּנְעֻרֶֽיהָ׃ (ה) וְשָׁמַ֨ע אָבִ֜יהָ אֶת־נִדְרָ֗הּ וֶֽאֱסָרָהּ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר אָֽסְרָ֣ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֔הּ וְהֶחֱרִ֥ישׁ לָ֖הּ אָבִ֑יהָ וְקָ֙מוּ֙ כׇּל־נְדָרֶ֔יהָ וְכׇל־אִסָּ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־אָסְרָ֥ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ יָקֽוּם׃ (ו) וְאִם־הֵנִ֨יא אָבִ֣יהָ אֹתָהּ֮ בְּי֣וֹם שׇׁמְעוֹ֒ כׇּל־נְדָרֶ֗יהָ וֶֽאֱסָרֶ֛יהָ אֲשֶׁר־אָסְרָ֥ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ לֹ֣א יָק֑וּם וַֽי־הֹוָה֙ יִֽסְלַח־לָ֔הּ כִּי־הֵנִ֥יא אָבִ֖יהָ אֹתָֽהּ׃ (ז) וְאִם־הָי֤וֹ תִֽהְיֶה֙ לְאִ֔ישׁ וּנְדָרֶ֖יהָ עָלֶ֑יהָ א֚וֹ מִבְטָ֣א שְׂפָתֶ֔יהָ אֲשֶׁ֥ר אָסְרָ֖ה עַל־נַפְשָֽׁהּ׃ (ח) וְשָׁמַ֥ע אִישָׁ֛הּ בְּי֥וֹם שׇׁמְע֖וֹ וְהֶחֱרִ֣ישׁ לָ֑הּ וְקָ֣מוּ נְדָרֶ֗יהָ וֶֽאֱסָרֶ֛הָ אֲשֶׁר־אָסְרָ֥ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ יָקֻֽמוּ׃ (ט) וְ֠אִ֠ם בְּי֨וֹם שְׁמֹ֣עַ אִישָׁהּ֮ יָנִ֣יא אוֹתָהּ֒ וְהֵפֵ֗ר אֶת־נִדְרָהּ֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָלֶ֔יהָ וְאֵת֙ מִבְטָ֣א שְׂפָתֶ֔יהָ אֲשֶׁ֥ר אָסְרָ֖ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֑הּ וַי־הֹוָ֖ה יִֽסְלַֽח־לָֽהּ׃ (י) וְנֵ֥דֶר אַלְמָנָ֖ה וּגְרוּשָׁ֑ה כֹּ֛ל אֲשֶׁר־אָסְרָ֥ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ יָק֥וּם עָלֶֽיהָ׃ (יא) וְאִם־בֵּ֥ית אִישָׁ֖הּ נָדָ֑רָה אֽוֹ־אָסְרָ֥ה אִסָּ֛ר עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ בִּשְׁבֻעָֽה׃ (יב) וְשָׁמַ֤ע אִישָׁהּ֙ וְהֶחֱרִ֣שׁ לָ֔הּ לֹ֥א הֵנִ֖יא אֹתָ֑הּ וְקָ֙מוּ֙ כׇּל־נְדָרֶ֔יהָ וְכׇל־אִסָּ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־אָסְרָ֥ה עַל־נַפְשָׁ֖הּ יָקֽוּם׃ (יג) וְאִם־הָפֵר֩ יָפֵ֨ר אֹתָ֥ם ׀ אִישָׁהּ֮ בְּי֣וֹם שׇׁמְעוֹ֒ כׇּל־מוֹצָ֨א שְׂפָתֶ֧יהָ לִנְדָרֶ֛יהָ וּלְאִסַּ֥ר נַפְשָׁ֖הּ לֹ֣א יָק֑וּם אִישָׁ֣הּ הֲפֵרָ֔ם וַי־הֹוָ֖ה יִֽסְלַֽח־לָֽהּ׃ (יד) כׇּל־נֵ֛דֶר וְכׇל־שְׁבֻעַ֥ת אִסָּ֖ר לְעַנֹּ֣ת נָ֑פֶשׁ אִישָׁ֥הּ יְקִימֶ֖נּוּ וְאִישָׁ֥הּ יְפֵרֶֽנּוּ׃ (טו) וְאִם־הַחֲרֵשׁ֩ יַחֲרִ֨ישׁ לָ֥הּ אִישָׁהּ֮ מִיּ֣וֹם אֶל־יוֹם֒ וְהֵקִים֙ אֶת־כׇּל־נְדָרֶ֔יהָ א֥וֹ אֶת־כׇּל־אֱסָרֶ֖יהָ אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָלֶ֑יהָ הֵקִ֣ים אֹתָ֔ם כִּי־הֶחֱרִ֥שׁ לָ֖הּ בְּי֥וֹם שׇׁמְעֽוֹ׃ (טז) וְאִם־הָפֵ֥ר יָפֵ֛ר אֹתָ֖ם אַחֲרֵ֣י שׇׁמְע֑וֹ וְנָשָׂ֖א אֶת־עֲוֺנָֽהּ׃ (יז) אֵ֣לֶּה הַֽחֻקִּ֗ים אֲשֶׁ֨ר צִוָּ֤ה יְ־הֹוָה֙ אֶת־מֹשֶׁ֔ה בֵּ֥ין אִ֖ישׁ לְאִשְׁתּ֑וֹ בֵּֽין־אָ֣ב לְבִתּ֔וֹ בִּנְעֻרֶ֖יהָ בֵּ֥ית אָבִֽיהָ׃

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  • This doesn't explain why. Commented 5 hours ago
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Because a significant amount of the Masechta is dealing with the beginning of Parshas Matos (Bamidbar 30:2-17), which discusses a husband’s ability to annul his wife's vows.

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  • This is indeed one plausible answer but I don't think it's all that significant an amount. Most of the tractate is not about that. Commented 23 hours ago
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Many have pointed out that Nedarim is in Nashim because vows particularly relate to women/wives. Nobody has explained why that is, which I think would be relevant, and therefore I'd like to bring the Likkutei Torah's explanation in Parashat Matot (3).

There it discusses two forms of spiritual consciousness - masculine and feminine. This is not (necessarily) pertinent to men and women l'maaseh - women can have masculine consciousness and the converse (the pasuk talks about a woman b'ne'uriha, in her youth, implying a state of immaturity, so it's not about men and women davka).

Here's how to understand the difference:

When we first commit to God, this commitment is external - we are doing so because we trust that it is true, because it makes sense to us. This spiritual level of consciousness is defined as feminine (nukva). It means we don't actually have an integrated understanding of what's so true, what's so good about being committed to Hashem and His Torah, and therefore our heart is lacking in the endeavour.

For example, we will keep Shabbat because we know we must, and know it's super important. We might even mildly enjoy Shabbat as an activity, but we will not have a profound love, borne out of a depth of learning about the significance of Shabbat that comes with learning, and time. As such, we are at risk of breaking Shabbat.

Therefore, when a person is in this state of consciousness, vows become important. Vows draw down an extra wall around an activity, making it harder to fail. Shabbat is a bad example for this, as vows are particularly useful around things which are permitted. The truth is, even things that are permitted can drag us down and make us unholy, ch'v. Yes, a person only eats Kosher cake all day, but is he really such a tzaddik for eating cake all day? This is where perishut (abstinence) comes in. Every person on the road to holiness needs to eventually practice perishut, and here, vows act as guardrails to the perishut (although today we generally just say "bli neder").

Now, a further caveat. We actually have an elevated spiritual goal on top of abstinence, which is to actually transform the mundane, permitted items of the world into holiness (which the Zohar calls ithapcha). This is not something that is possible in the nukva state, as in that state we are too prone to temptation.

This is due to many things, including the principle of nashim daatan kalot, and nukva loves Hashem with the love of a son to his father - which is not characterised by being a "fiery" passionate love and finally, this state of consciousness is characterised by being in the midbar - Israel was in this state at that time - and the open mem indicates a susceptibility to foreign thoughts - a structural vulnerably in consciousness itself (Amalek, who creates doubt in our trust in Hashem, by saying to our intellect "why should you do all this, if you don't even understand why you are doing it or what's so good about it, come on, let's enjoy the world").

So this is why it is specifically "Nashim" that make vows - vows are necessary to keep us afloat with the world of the permitted, before we've managed to achieve a state of "masculine" consciousness (dechar). Until then, all we can do is abstain (as the Zohar refers to it: itkafiya).

Now, through Torah study, we develop this level of dechar, because "if she be to a man", and "it is the way of man to conquer". Mount Sinai being Hashem's Chatuna with Yisrael transformed our love for Him not as a son loves a father, but as a wife loves a husband, and this is a fiery, passionate love. Now, we love Torah, and Him and are not susceptible to foreign thoughts. We see and taste the goodness of Torah and Mitzvot and being Hashem's people, and this gives us the power to transform the permitted into holiness, and thus "the husband annuls the vow of the wife".

Therefore, Nedarim (vows) are placed with in Nashim because vows are predominantly there to assist us when we are in a state of nukva, feminine, and once we become "husbands", dechar, we annul the vow.

For more on this see Derech Mitzvotecha Mitzvat Zichrat U'mechiyat Amalek.

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