🌐 Mailman 3 September 2016 - Python-list - python.org

Re: how to automate java application in window using python
by Lawrence D’Oliveiro Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 2:12:14 AM UTC+12, Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:03 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >> Like I said, trying to automate a GUI is a waste of time. GUIs are designed >> for humans, not computers, to use. > > Okay, then. Come up with a way to end-to-end-test a GUI application > without some form of GUI automation. There isn’t one. Have you noticed GUI apps are particularly buggy?

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Re: How to convert 'ö' to 'oe' or 'o' (or other similar things) in a string?
by Marko Rauhamaa Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

Thorsten Kampe <thorsten(a)thorstenkampe.de>: > * Terry Reedy (Sun, 18 Sep 2016 03:51:40 -0400) >> On 9/18/2016 2:45 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> > It doesn't matter whether you call them "accent" like most people do, or >> > "diacritics" as linguists do. >> >> I am a native born American and I have never before heard or seen >> non-accent diacritic marks called 'accents'. Accents indicate stress. >> Other diacritics indicate other pronunciation changes. It is >> counterproductive to confuse the two groups. Spanish, for instance, has >> vowel accents that change which syllable gets stressed. A tilda is not >> an accent; rather, it softens the pronunciation of 'n' to 'ny', as in >> 'canyon'. > > Had to be said. Nothing to add. <URL: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/accent> 5 a : a mark (as ´, `, ˆ) used in writing or printing to indicate a specific sound value, stress, or pitch, to distinguish words otherwise identically spelled, or to indicate that an ordinarily mute vowel should be pronounced b : an accented letter Marko

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Re: How to convert 'ö' to 'oe' or 'o' (or other similar things) in a string?
by Steven D'Aprano Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Sunday 18 September 2016 15:59, Thorsten Kampe wrote: > * Martin Schöön (17 Sep 2016 20:20:12 GMT) >> >> Den 2016-09-17 skrev Kouli <dev(a)kou.li>: >> > Hello, try the Unidecode module - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Unidecode. >> > >> > Kouli >> > >> > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 6:12 PM, Peng Yu <pengyu.ut(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, I want to convert strings in which the characters with accents >> >> should be converted to the ones without accents. Here is my current >> >> code. >> >> Side note from Sweden. Å, ä and ö are not accented characters in our >> language. They are characters of their own. > > I think he meant diacritics. It doesn't matter whether you call them "accent" like most people do, or "diacritics" as linguists do. Either way, in some languages they are an integral part of the letter, like the horizonal stroke in English t or the vertical bar in English p and b, and in some languages they are modifiers, where there are rules that tell you how to write them without the modifier. In English, i is a letter with a dot diacritic, sometimes called the "tittle". But unlike Turkish, we don't have a dotless i, ı, and to add to the confusion when we capitalise i we get I with no dot instead of İ. Dropping the dot, or adding one when you shouldn't, can *literally* get you killed: http://gizmodo.com/382026/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-th… more-in-jail http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1017243/cellphone-localisation-gli… As far as I know, no natural language has a dotted capital J, but there is a dotless ȷ although I'm not sure what language it is from. (Possibly just used in mathematics?) -- Steven git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space.

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Serialising an 8x8x8 array of pygame sounds
by kerbingamer376 Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

Is it possible to serialise an 8x8x8 array of pygame.mixer.Sound objects, so they stay at the same places in the array, but in a format that can be pickled, and then the opposite (read from that back to pygame.mixer.Sound objects)? Thanks (copied from stackoverflow question @ https://is.gd/JDtURe)

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Re: Is there something similar to `set -v` of bash in python
by Ned Batchelder Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 8:29:38 AM UTC-4, Peng Yu wrote: > On Sunday, September 18, 2016, Ned Batchelder <ned(a)nedbatchelder.com> wrote: > > > On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 11:09:04 PM UTC-4, Peng Yu wrote: > > > The manual says the following. > > > > > > "The trace function is invoked (with event set to 'call') whenever a > > > new local scope is entered; it should return a reference to a local > > > trace function to be used that scope, or None if the scope shouldn’t > > > be traced." > > > > > > It means that one can not somehow settrace in one line and expect to > > > get the trace function being called in the next line. > > > > > > So something like `set -v` in bash sounds not possible. Is it so? > > > > You've found a good reason why "set -v" would be very difficult if > > not impossible in Python. > > > > I'm curious though, why you would want to trace every line in a > > program every time you (or anyone else) ran it? > > > This is for debugging not for normal run. But I need the ability to control > the range of the code in which the debug message is printed. There is a programmatic interface: https://docs.python.org/2/library/trace.html#programmatic-interface If the section you want to trace is a function call, then you can make it work. --Ned.

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Re: Is there something similar to `set -v` of bash in python
by Ned Batchelder Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Saturday, September 17, 2016 at 11:09:04 PM UTC-4, Peng Yu wrote: > The manual says the following. > > "The trace function is invoked (with event set to 'call') whenever a > new local scope is entered; it should return a reference to a local > trace function to be used that scope, or None if the scope shouldn’t > be traced." > > It means that one can not somehow settrace in one line and expect to > get the trace function being called in the next line. > > So something like `set -v` in bash sounds not possible. Is it so? You've found a good reason why "set -v" would be very difficult if not impossible in Python. I'm curious though, why you would want to trace every line in a program every time you (or anyone else) ran it? I view tracing lines as a debugging technique. Once the program is behaving properly, why do you want all the noise of the traced lines? In Bash scripts we do it because some scripts are light automation where the person running the script should have a clear idea of what actions it is taking. The actions in the script are commands that the person might run themselves at other times, and so the difference between running the script and running the commands is not great. But in a Python program, presumably the difference is greater. I cannot type out single Python lines at my shell prompt to perform the actions the Python program does. Perhaps you want to define an alias for "python -m trace -t $*" ? --Ned.

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Re: How to convert 'ö' to 'oe' or 'o' (or other similar things) in a string?
by Martin Schöön Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

Den 2016-09-17 skrev Kouli <dev(a)kou.li>: > Hello, try the Unidecode module - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Unidecode. > > Kouli > > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 6:12 PM, Peng Yu <pengyu.ut(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, I want to convert strings in which the characters with accents >> should be converted to the ones without accents. Here is my current >> code. Side note from Sweden. Å, ä and ö are not accented characters in our language. They are characters of their own. If you want to look up someone called Öhman in the phone directory you go to the Ö section not the O section. Related anecdote from Phoenix AZ. By now you have noticed my family name: Schöön. On airline tickets and boarding passes in the U.S. it gets spelled Schoeoen. This landed me in a special security check once. After a while the youngish lady performing the search started to look like 1+1 did not sum up to 2. She looked at my passport and boarding pass again and asked why I was there with her. I pointed at another young lady, the one that 'scrutinized' passports and boarding passes while chatting with a friend and said "She told me to go over here." "Wait here, I have to talk to my supervisor." A few minutes passed (I was alone in the enhances security check throughout...) and then "I am sorry but you should not have had to go through here. There was a mistake." So there you are: If you are a middle aged, caucasian guy with a passport from northern Europe and no 'funny' letters in your name your are not a threat in the eyes of TSA in Arizona. Sorry for wasting the bandwidth. /Martin

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Re: How to convert 'ö' to 'oe' or 'o' (or other similar things) in a string?
by Christian Gollwitzer Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

Am 17.09.16 um 23:19 schrieb Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn: > Peng Yu wrote: > >> Hi, I want to convert strings in which the characters with accents >> should be converted to the ones without accents. > > Why? > >> […] >> ./main.py Förstemann > > AFAIK, “ä”, “ö”, and “ü” are not accented characters in any natural > language, but characters of their own (umlauts). > > In particular, I know for certain that they are not accented in Germanic > languages. Swedish has been mentioned; I can add my native language, > German, to that list. In German, they are letters, but they collate as either ae, oe, ue (rarely) or a, o, u (modern style). Ad dictionary or phone book does not have an "ö" section in Germany. Example from a German-Latin dictionary, printed in 1958 Laster -> vitium Lästerer -> homo maledicus lasterhaft -> vitiosus If "ä" would sort as a single letter, "Lästerer" would be the last entry. If it would sort as "ae", it would be the first entry. Therfore, in this example it sorts as "a", with "ä" > "a" to resolve a tie only. Christian

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Re: How to convert 'ö' to 'oe' or 'o' (or other similar things) in a string?
by Steven D'Aprano Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Sunday 18 September 2016 13:30, Peng Yu wrote: > On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 3:20 PM, Martin Schöön <martin.schoon(a)gmail.com> > wrote: >> Den 2016-09-17 skrev Kouli <dev(a)kou.li>: >>> Hello, try the Unidecode module - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/Unidecode. > > I don't find a way to make it print oe for ö. Could anybody please > advise what is the correct way to do it? In general, there is no One Correct Way to translate accented characters into ASCII. It depends on the language, and the word. For instance, in English ö will usually be translated into just o with no accent. We usually write coöperate and zoölogy as cooperate and zoology, or sometimes with a hyphen co-operate, but never cooeperate or zooelogy. But if the word is derived from German, or words that *look* like they might be German, we do sometimes use oe: Roentgen rays (an old term for x-rays) after Wilhelm Röntgen, for instance. But in other languages the rules will be different. How, for example, should one translate an Estonian word containing ö into Turkish, but using ASCII letters only? I have no idea. But in both languages, and unlike German, ö is *not* considered an o-with-an-accent, but a distinct letter of the alphabet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_%28diacritic%29 As far as Python goes, if all you want to do is replace ö with oe and Ö into OE (or perhaps you should use Œ and œ?) then you can use str.replace or string.translate: mystring.replace("Ö", "OE").replace("ö", "oe") -- Steven git gets easier once you get the basic idea that branches are homeomorphic endofunctors mapping submanifolds of a Hilbert space.

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Re: Is the content available in the html doc available in help()?
by Steve D'Aprano Sept. 18, 2016

Sept. 18, 2016

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 10:50 am, Peng Yu wrote: > Hi, I want to get the same content as the html doc from help(). I am > not sure if this is possible (as I tried help(inspect) which does not > give the same content). Could anybody confirm if there is a way to get > the same content from help()? Thanks. > > https://docs.python.org/2/library/inspect.html help() does *not* return the same documentation as on the website. The website usually includes a lot more detail. The help() function introspects the python source code and formats the docstrings found, so it will often be very much smaller. If you want a copy of the actual Python docs from the website, use a third-party downloader to mirror the docs.python.org site. (On Linux, you can use wget.) But before you do that, which is considered a bit rude, have you checked *both* the Download and Documentation pages on the website to see if there is a link to download the documentation? Or you can get the .rst files from Python's source repository, then use Sphinx to compile the .rst files to HTML. If you are using Linux, your package manager (such as yum, apt-get or similar) may have a package for the Python docs. Try `yum install python-docs` or similar. On the other hand, if you want help() to generate the documentation as a HTML page, I don't think the help() function itself will do it, but the pydoc module does. You can call pydoc from the shell prompt (NOT the Python prompt, the shell): pydoc --help for details. -- Steve “Cheer up,” they said, “things could be worse.” So I cheered up, and sure enough, things got worse.

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