🌐 Mailman 3 February 2004 - Pythonmac-SIG - python.org

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for OSX programming beginner?
by Russell E Owen March 20, 2005

March 20, 2005

>Been lurking here for a while and quietly observing. > >I am looking for a programming language and preferably and IDE for a >young nephew wanting to dip his toes in the programming pool... >Is Python worth further investigating and how good are the IDEs? >Is there something along the lines of REALbasic VisualBasic >integrated interface/code style IDE available? >What are the specialities limits of the language? >Why learn Python rather than battle on and master C or more >particularly Objective C ? >Rather difficult to answer, but how different is the learning curve? > >Many thanks for any help. Hmmm...I suggest the following: Smalltalk: Squeak and VisualWorks NC are both free (the latter only for noncommercial use). Smalltalk is a lovely, simple really powerful language that includes: - powerful IDE and class browser with integrated debugger; smalltalk has the best development environment I've ever seen for a language because it includes live debugging, live changing of classes (want to fix a method? go ahead; the change propagates; fix it and continue on the fly) - really simple yet powerful language; one of the most elegant languges I've seen, though the syntax is a bit different than C and Python programmers are used to - very rich class library, including one of the nicest collection classes (lists, sets, etc.) available Between these two, squeak is smaller and more fun and includes a nifty GUI called Morphic; however it all runs in one big window (very non-Mac like). VisualWorks is more Mac-like (at least on a Mac) and more mature, but is much larger. Both are fully cross-platform (write once, run everywhere). One limitation to smalltalk is that it's not much good for simple scripting, hence simple text processing scripts and such. Python really shines there, so... Python. This is a really nice language and he'll be able to go far with it. However, based on what you said above, some of its limitations make me nervous: - there is no really well integrated GUI, unlike the suggestions above. You can do GUI programming, but you have to choose a 3rd party package and they are fully powerful, but the two main ones (Tkinter and wxPython) are somewhat clumsy and poorly documented. - hence there is no really first rate IDE (not to put down the IDEs that are there, but in comparison to smalltalk or RealBasic...) Note: python is built into MacOS X 10.2, but it's an outdated version missing some of the things that make the language sane (such as readlines support and a GUI package). Install the missing items or a better package (if you've been reading you've seen various options for that including at least one recent binary installer). I suggest learning those two (since their few weaknesses are complimentary), but you could also consider: Buy RealBasic. The knowledge is well worth the money! It's not a wonderful language, but not so bad either and if he already knows it, well...that's a huge leg up. Java. Not sure what the IDE situation is for MacOS X, but the language is reasonable (much saner than C++). The problem is that the need to declare the type of all objects makes it a clumsy and messy language compared to Python and Smalltalk. I suggest NOT using C++. The language is too arcane and messy. The object model is insanely complicated and the pitfalls fill volumes. Learn to program first, then learn C++ later if you really have to. -- Russell

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(no subject)
by Keith Nemitz Dec. 6, 2004

Dec. 6, 2004

>> >> >> huh? I mean does everyone use[-3:] instead and 0 is taboo? I'm used >> to the Icon programming language where "food"[-3:0] returns --> ood > > "food"[-3:] is equivalent to "food"[-3:None] (that is, literally, how > it works out internally) > > "food"[-3:0] is just backwards :) If anything, it should give you > "oof", but that's too confusing. > > -bob > Thank you. I knew there had to be a reason. If you think about lists as ring buffers, however, then "food"[-3:0]-->"ood" makes plenty of sense and can be very useful. My case that started this whole thread had to do with iterating from negative to positive, returning larger substrings on each iteration. It broke with the zero index. So I had to special case it. sigh, I wonder if adding this 'concept' to python (indexing lists as ring buffers) would break any existing code... Heck while I'm at it, changing the language, might as well add nested comments, and (my personal favorite) record names, implemented like this: record <tuple of enums> tuple of enums ::= (<enum> [,enum]*) enum ::= <string>[= <int>] ...such that the keyword 'record' turns the strings into module and/or class scoped indexes. Isn't it fun to dream? Keith Nemitz

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WebKit, SVG
by Dinu Gherman Oct. 4, 2004

Oct. 4, 2004

Hi, recently I played a bit with Konfabulator, some kind of a "widget framework" for OS X, which looks very nice at the beginning. But after a while it seemed to me that despite the very good idea, its implementation is kind of using the wrong technology. They try to make it very simple to define widgets by specifying them in XML and adding behaviour in Javascript code. This is done in some very strange way, though, like putting the Javascript code insinde XML comments, which is the recommended way of doing it! Well, I think SVG and Python would be the better combination, so I wonder if Apple's WebKit is any good in making use of Adobe's SVG renderer plug-in, somehow? Of course, then we'd still need some bridge to Python, but you need to start somewhere... Dinu PS: www.konfabulator.com -- Dinu C. Gherman ...................................................................... "The thing that impresses me the most about America is the way parents obey their children." (King Edward VIII)

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Quicktime, versions, 3GPP
by Dinu Gherman Aug. 15, 2004

Aug. 15, 2004

Hi again, does anybody know if the Quicktime modules under Carbon do always support the currently installed/found version of Quicktime during compile time, or is it a more difficult story? I'm especially interested in Quicktime 6.3 and higher with their ability to save in 3GPP mode for mobile devices... Thanks, Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman - http://python.net/~gherman ...................................................................... "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." (Alan Kay)

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ANN: Preview of SystemConfiguration wrapper
by Bob Ippolito April 2, 2004

April 2, 2004

http://undefined.org/python/SystemConfiguration-0.1.tar.gz This is a source distribution, it requires PyObjC and Developer Tools. The wrapper itself is (entirely) an ObjC framework, but it includes everything necessary for Python wrapping. I haven't done any documentation, real tests, especially testing of the runloop integration.. but here it is if someone wants to play with it. The ObjC is a little sloppy (three classes in one file), and the setup.py is a lot sloppy (thanks to distutils being not easily extensible), but it works.. or at least it should. I'll be adding stuff from MoreSCF, probably tomorrow, and writing more tests/examples and possibly some documentation over the next couple days. -bob

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PackMan engine version 0.4
by Jack Jansen March 14, 2004

March 14, 2004

Folks, I've started on a new version of pimp, the engine underlying Package Manager. The main thing I want to fix is how the default database is located: currently the databases are for specific versions of the darwin kernel, i.e. OSX 10.3, 10.3.1 and 10.3.2 all get a different database. I'm going to put in a fallback scheme where it first tries a database for the specific OS version, if that fails it tries a more general one, etc. The other thing I want to fix is to differentiate between Apple-installed MacPython on Panther and user-installed MacPython on Panther (which will use the same database as MacPython on Jaguar). I'm not going to do a complete overhaul of pimp, but if there are low-level features you would like to see included: now is the time to ask for them and I'll see if I can include them. -- Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen(a)cwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman

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Newbie path problem
by LALOUX Martin March 3, 2004

March 3, 2004

I am new in Macpython (Panther, working in win32 python) and i have a problem with paths. When I launch a script (doubleclicking the .py file -> PythonLauncher) which needs to open a file located in the same directory, I have a message which says "file" not found. When i launch the same script from terminal (cd..directory), no problem. I wrote a small script which gives me the path of my script when I launch it and here the results: "with PythonLauncher: martin $ "/usr/bin/pythonw" "/Users/martin/Documents/pythondivers/documentation/PySource/testpath.py" && echo Exit status: $? && exit 1 path: /Users/martin pythonpath: directly from terminal : PySource $ python testpath.py path: /Users/martin/Documents/pythondivers/documentation/PySource pythonpath: " What can I do because this problem is very annoying ? Thank-you very much Martin Laloux

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Re: [pygame] python + pygame on OSX
by Bob Ippolito March 3, 2004

March 3, 2004

On Feb 21, 2004, at 8:38 PM, Pete Shinners wrote: > enrike wrote: >> i would like to hear comments from people using python + pygame on >> OSX. I am interested on knowing about portability. I should be >> working on windows or linux and then port to OSX. >> I am not sure how difficult porting to osx is. I would like to know >> as well about dependencies, compatibilities etc.. > > I don't know where you can find a good explanation. For the most part > a pygame game just works on OSX. Solarwolf ran on the macs with no > changes at all. I think the biggest thing to keep in mind is file > paths. But if your game already handles the path differences between > windows and linux, it should be clean enough to run on OSX. Building self-contained applications on OS X that use pygame is currently a difficult matter, and getting pygame installed can be difficult for some (you actually need to read the Package Manager directions.. because some directory permissions need to be changed from the system default in order to install pygame). If you would like an OS X port of your pygame application, let me know. I'm not going to write a tutorial about how to do it, because I'm working on the software that will make it easy.. but in the meantime I will probably do it for you if you ask, mainly because it helps me test my packaging software with random bits of code not designed specifically to use it ;) Stuff you should avoid if possible are: runtime additions to sys.path intermingling of code and data (keep them in separate folders, please) using __file__ or similar mechanisms to find data (really a subissue of the previous) pygame does two of these things on its own, so that's one reason why it's not particularly easy. I think I'm going to workaround these issues for packages by having an online database of packaging hints (f.ex. there will be an XML file on pythonmac.org and/or undefined.org that says "pygame needs its .ttf, and must not use the zip import hook"). When the software is ready and the database is populated, applications that don't break the three rules above should be package-able with almost no effort. -bob

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New experimental PackMan packages: QuickTime and LaunchServices
by Jack Jansen Feb. 28, 2004

Feb. 28, 2004

I've added two new packages to the experimental PackMan database: 1. A new version of LaunchServices with the minor bug Bob reported fixed. This will go to the main database as soon as I get one or two "it works" reports. 2. The first release of the QuickTime package, which will replace Carbon.Qt for MacPython 2.4. This new version opens many more APIs, such as the Quicktime Music Architecure, image codecs and much more. I definitely need feedback on the usability of these new features, there's a good chance I missed some crucial API somewhere, so please try this one if you're interested in quicktime. Also note that I haven't had any feedback on the experimental OSA package yet. Please speak up folks! At the moment the experimental database os 10.3-only. However, if people on OSX 10.2 are willing to promise they'll test stuff and report back I'm willing to do the extra work of building a 10.2 experimental database too. Let me know. You'll find the experimental database at <http://www.python.org/packman/version-0.3/exp-darwin-7.0.0- Power_Macintosh.plist>. -- Jack Jansen, <Jack.Jansen(a)cwi.nl>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman

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question about Carbon.AE and AppleEvents
by Daniel Greenblatt Feb. 28, 2004

Feb. 28, 2004

Hello all - Not sure if this is the right forum, but I'm all Googled out and have nothing working to show for it..... I'm working on a application (written in Python, packaged as a proper .app) that runs on OS X under X11 and I would like it to respond to AppleEvents (i.e. opening up its registered file types). I got as far as to find the Carbon.AE and associated modules, and write a bit of code which supposedly installs 'odoc' AE handlers, but with no luck. So I had a couple questions I was hoping someone would be able to help me with.... 1 - Is there any way to track what AppleEvents an application is sending and/or receiving? 2 - Does using Tkinter and X11 cause any interference in the AppleEvent handling mechanisms? I.e. do the events ever get to the Python layer? 3 - Can anyone point me to some [preferably working!] sample code that installs event handlers, etc... Thanks, Dan ---------------------------- Daniel Greenblatt UCSF Computer Graphics Lab dan(a)cgl.ucsf.edu

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