🌐 Mailman 3 November 2004 - Pythonmac-SIG - python.org

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Python for OSX programming beginner?
by Russell E Owen March 20, 2005

March 20, 2005

>Been lurking here for a while and quietly observing. > >I am looking for a programming language and preferably and IDE for a >young nephew wanting to dip his toes in the programming pool... >Is Python worth further investigating and how good are the IDEs? >Is there something along the lines of REALbasic VisualBasic >integrated interface/code style IDE available? >What are the specialities limits of the language? >Why learn Python rather than battle on and master C or more >particularly Objective C ? >Rather difficult to answer, but how different is the learning curve? > >Many thanks for any help. Hmmm...I suggest the following: Smalltalk: Squeak and VisualWorks NC are both free (the latter only for noncommercial use). Smalltalk is a lovely, simple really powerful language that includes: - powerful IDE and class browser with integrated debugger; smalltalk has the best development environment I've ever seen for a language because it includes live debugging, live changing of classes (want to fix a method? go ahead; the change propagates; fix it and continue on the fly) - really simple yet powerful language; one of the most elegant languges I've seen, though the syntax is a bit different than C and Python programmers are used to - very rich class library, including one of the nicest collection classes (lists, sets, etc.) available Between these two, squeak is smaller and more fun and includes a nifty GUI called Morphic; however it all runs in one big window (very non-Mac like). VisualWorks is more Mac-like (at least on a Mac) and more mature, but is much larger. Both are fully cross-platform (write once, run everywhere). One limitation to smalltalk is that it's not much good for simple scripting, hence simple text processing scripts and such. Python really shines there, so... Python. This is a really nice language and he'll be able to go far with it. However, based on what you said above, some of its limitations make me nervous: - there is no really well integrated GUI, unlike the suggestions above. You can do GUI programming, but you have to choose a 3rd party package and they are fully powerful, but the two main ones (Tkinter and wxPython) are somewhat clumsy and poorly documented. - hence there is no really first rate IDE (not to put down the IDEs that are there, but in comparison to smalltalk or RealBasic...) Note: python is built into MacOS X 10.2, but it's an outdated version missing some of the things that make the language sane (such as readlines support and a GUI package). Install the missing items or a better package (if you've been reading you've seen various options for that including at least one recent binary installer). I suggest learning those two (since their few weaknesses are complimentary), but you could also consider: Buy RealBasic. The knowledge is well worth the money! It's not a wonderful language, but not so bad either and if he already knows it, well...that's a huge leg up. Java. Not sure what the IDE situation is for MacOS X, but the language is reasonable (much saner than C++). The problem is that the need to declare the type of all objects makes it a clumsy and messy language compared to Python and Smalltalk. I suggest NOT using C++. The language is too arcane and messy. The object model is insanely complicated and the pitfalls fill volumes. Learn to program first, then learn C++ later if you really have to. -- Russell

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ANN: Python 2.3->2.4 "compatibility" package
by Bob Ippolito Feb. 2, 2005

Feb. 2, 2005

I've put together a quick set of packages that brings a few new/updated modules from Python 2.4 to Python 2.3: Cross-platform: new subprocess module new decimal module For Mac OS X: new LaunchServices wrapper new OSA wrapper updated QuickTime package A binary installer built with bdist_mpkg is available from: http://undefined.org/python/Python23Compat.zip Sources are available by svn at: http://svn.red-bean.com/bob/Python23Compat/trunk/ The installer can be built as follows (assuming py2app trunk installed): % python setup.py bdist_mpkg or % bdist_mpkg -- (the -- makes sure it doesn't open up N installers.. bdist_mpkg by default automatically opens the new package) -bob

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Problem with tkaqua Tkinter and some Kanji unicode values.
by Read Roberts Dec. 13, 2004

Dec. 13, 2004

Thanks for confirming that it is not just my system! I'm pretty sure that it the problem is in Tk rather than Python/Tkinter , as I can do Entry_widget.cget('txt') and get the right string back, and can even cut and paste from the Entry widget to other apps and still get the original Unicode back ( well, UTF-8, but it is still correct). Looks like I will have to go spelunking in TK to find the cause - anyone have suggestions about where to start? - Read >Hmmm, the same thing is also happening for the Mincho. I'm able to display >those Unicodes fine in TextEdit in both Gothic and Mincho, so this is >something that's happening in the Python side of things, it looks like. > >I get the same results you get using python 2.3.4 and TclTkAqua 8.4.7 under >OS X 10.3.6. > >Dave >

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(no subject)
by Keith Nemitz Dec. 6, 2004

Dec. 6, 2004

>> >> >> huh? I mean does everyone use[-3:] instead and 0 is taboo? I'm used >> to the Icon programming language where "food"[-3:0] returns --> ood > > "food"[-3:] is equivalent to "food"[-3:None] (that is, literally, how > it works out internally) > > "food"[-3:0] is just backwards :) If anything, it should give you > "oof", but that's too confusing. > > -bob > Thank you. I knew there had to be a reason. If you think about lists as ring buffers, however, then "food"[-3:0]-->"ood" makes plenty of sense and can be very useful. My case that started this whole thread had to do with iterating from negative to positive, returning larger substrings on each iteration. It broke with the zero index. So I had to special case it. sigh, I wonder if adding this 'concept' to python (indexing lists as ring buffers) would break any existing code... Heck while I'm at it, changing the language, might as well add nested comments, and (my personal favorite) record names, implemented like this: record <tuple of enums> tuple of enums ::= (<enum> [,enum]*) enum ::= <string>[= <int>] ...such that the keyword 'record' turns the strings into module and/or class scoped indexes. Isn't it fun to dream? Keith Nemitz

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Problem during installing MySQL module in Python
by Zsolt.Putnoky＠alcatel.fr Dec. 2, 2004

Dec. 2, 2004

Dear All, I had tried to install MySQLdba-1.0.0 to be able to talk to MySQL 4 databases. I cd-ed into the MySQLdba-1.0.0 folder then issued the following command /usr/local/bin/python setup.py install # /usr/local/bin/python is to select the custom installation (Python 2.3.4) and not the Apple provided one. At the end of the installation, had received the following message _mysql.c: In function `_mysql_ConnectionObject_shutdown': _mysql.c:1545: error: too few arguments to function `mysql_shutdown' error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1 Does anyone has any ideas what can be the problem? Any help appreciated. Have a good weekend, Zsolt Putnoky

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python 2.3.4 on Mac OS X 10.3.6 is working - upgraded standard installation
by Robert Valsjö Dec. 1, 2004

Dec. 1, 2004

Hi! I'm new on this list, but have read the archive of it. I have upgraded my standard python installation which comes with Mac OS X 10.3.6 to python 2.3.4 from source. I've followed the instructions in the README file in the catalog Mac/OSX in the source distribution. Everything I've done seems to work, but have I missed something? Please let me know. Here is my history list of the commands I've done. 1780 tar Python-2.3.4.tgz 1781 tar zxvf Python-2.3.4.tgz 1782 cd Python-2.3.4 1790 ./configure --enable-framework 1803 make 1804 make frameworkinstall 1805 make frameworkinstallextras 1815 cd /usr/bin/ 1818 sudo mv python python.orig 1820 sudo mv python2.3 python2.3.orig 1822 sudo mv pythonw pythonw.orig 1823 sudo mv pythonw2.3 pythonw2.3.orig 1827 cd /etc/ 1831 sudo emacs profile #add /usr/local/bin to PATH /rob Robert Valsjö

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RE:[Pythonmac-SIG] Problem with tkaqua Tkinter and some Kanji unicode values.
by Paul Taka Dec. 1, 2004

Dec. 1, 2004

Hello again, list. I have to type Japanese characters in python/Tk apps. Since I had troubles displaying kanji, I searched and found this topic in pythonmac archives: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/pythonmac-sig/2004-November/012110.html In the script given as example, there is the line below: root.font = TKFont(root, font = (u'\u30d2\u30e9\u30ae\u30ce\u89d2\u30b4 Pro W3', 12)) Why should I type the fontname with unicode characters? Because before I read this topic, I tried different Japanese fonts but by typing their name with ASCII char like this: font= "Hiragino Kaku Gothic W3" But it doesn't work this way. Thanks. Paul

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Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac OS 10.3.5 and tkinter.
by Paul Taka Nov. 30, 2004

Nov. 30, 2004

Yes, in fact, I've just noticed it before check my mail... But I used darwin-7.5.0 instead... (It doesn't matter?) When I tried to launch the python scripts I wrote under linux, I got an encoding problem. So as it is written on python.org, I added # -*- enconding: utf-8 -*- And replaced #!/usr/bin/python with #!/usr/bin/pythonw But I still have problems :( My HelloWorld is like this: ==================================== from Tkinter import * fen1=Tk() tex1= Label(fen1, text="Hello World!", fg='red') tex1.pack() tex2= Label(fen1, text="Bonjour à tous !", fg="blue") tex2.pack() bou1= Button(fen1, text="Quit", command=fen1.destroy) bou1.pack() fen1.mainloop() ========================================= And I get: syntax error near unexpected token `(' `fen1=Tk()' Are there compatibility problem with python programs using TK? Thanks a lot again. Paul >In PackageManager select File | Open URL in PackMan and try: > >http://www.python.org/packman/version-0.3/darwin-7.0.0- >Power_Macintosh.plist > >Ignore the warning message! > >If you go to www.python.org/packman you'll find more info.

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Problems with MacPython PackMan
by David Warde-Farley Nov. 30, 2004

Nov. 30, 2004

I fired up Package Manager a short while ago and got some rather puzzling behavior. Namely, packages won't install! They will download (I see this if check "verbose") but then it just hangs there. I'm at a loss as to why this would happen. Any ideas? (I've tried both your repository and the undefined.org repo). I should also mention, I'm using OS X 10.3.6, with the MacPython Addons. I also have a fink installed python (for dependency purposes) but I've removed the python symlink it creates so as to be sure I'm using the right Python.

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Keystroke/mouse events
by Edward Majcher Nov. 30, 2004

Nov. 30, 2004

Hi, I need to intercept keystrokes and mouse events at the system level, basically like a keystroke logger, not being familiar enough with the apple frameworks, can anyone point me in the right direction as far as a python package? I thought maybe "Events" in the Carbon package but from reading the apple api documentation this leads me to believe this will only work for events in the current application, vs system wide. Thanks, Ed Majcher

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